Lizzie Borden Society Forum

This has nothing to do with anything with the Lizzie Borden case but I am curious, what animals did Lizzie & her family have ? They had a barn so I am guessing horses? I heard the story about Lizzie & the cat but what eles did they have?

I only know about a horse. I think there was a cat that still lived around there after the murders- a reporter mentioned seeing a cat on the side steps, I think?
There were pigeons, but I've never been convinced they were *pets.* Lizzie didn't seem too fazed when being asked about their heads coming off.

I have to ask, what happened to the pigeons? For some reason I knew they had them but don't remember what happened.

It's interesting that Lizzie did have dogs as pets later in life after the murders. I wonder if Andrew and / or Abby wouldn't allow her to have dogs or cats as pets when she was living with them?

You can read Lizzie's inquest testimony about what happened to the pigeons, if you like.

We had discussed the topic and I think My impression was finally that since Andrew was paying to paint the property, he may have let Lizzie pick out the color to compensate for killing the pigeons before the painting was done- because they tend to be very messy. If they had stayed, I think the fences and the barn, etc. would have been marked by pigeon-poo before long. A paint job is a big investment.
They may have been killed for a practical reason.

Smudgeman @ Sat Mar 17, 2007 5:56 pm wrote:It's interesting that Lizzie did have dogs as pets later in life after the murders. I wonder if Andrew and / or Abby wouldn't allow her to have dogs or cats as pets when she was living with them?

I was wondering the same thing. Lizzie said she had had fleas so maybe she still interacted with some strays?
I wonder if she knew the Newfoundland who lived behind her on Third Street at the Chagnons?

When I walk around my neighborhood I know the names of the dogs but can't remember the peoples'!

I downloaded the inquest today, so I'll be looking for it. I thought that was funny how you knew the dog's names. I know just about every cat & dog on my street & the same thing---I see the pets, not always the people. We met our neighbors a few doors down because their siamese cat used to nap on our deck. One day he wasn't napping he expired. Well we knew where he lived so went & knocked on the door. They told us he everyday he would bring home a bird, chipmunk, etc..... so they think he ate something that was either sick or poisoned. Freaked me out I'll tell ya!!

Smudgeman @ Sat Mar 17, 2007 5:56 pm wrote:It's interesting that Lizzie did have dogs as pets later in life after the murders. I wonder if Andrew and / or Abby wouldn't allow her to have dogs or cats as pets when she was living with them?

In so far as I can speak for old cheapskate Andy I will tell you about having a dog or cat. Based on my limited knowledge, of course.

"There are plenty of stray cats on the farm, we won't spend a penny buying a cat."
"Dogs need a license and need to be fed daily. My money shan't pay for it. It would be different on a farm."

I know Andrew had a horse, but I believe he got rid of it because
of a new tax on horses and of course, Andrew was having nothing to do with that LOL

Can you tell us about the horse tax, Jeff?
Thanks!

I had a discussion with someone who works at the FHS, I think his name
is Mr. cunningham, and I asked him if Andrew spent any money on hoses to transport himself and the family @ town. He told me that Andrew
did have one horse, but the town decided to put a luxury tax on having horses. Of course, Andrew , being the frugal man we all know and love here, decided to get rid of the horse to avoid paying the tax.

You heard correctly, Jeff. Even today there are regulations for what qualifies as a "farm" in New England towns - and falls into a special property tax catagory. I heard the same story from Len Rebello. I believe the city was trying to discourage so many privately -owned livestock within city limits, and encourage the trolley cars and public transport. One horse did not qualify under "farm" and so a personal property tax was passed, sort of like the one we have today on our car. I imagine this was an outrage to farmer Andrew, and he decided to unload the horse. Poor Lizzie, "Daddy took her T-Bird away"- and she had to hoof it or hitch a ride- a sad thing for a young lady trying to move in genteel society.

Am trying to think of where I read that Lizzie had canaries at Maplecroft, and also had one very tame squirrel which came up on the back porch, 3 Boston bull terriers (over time), and a pair of carriage horses before she became one of the first in town to own an automobile. I do not recall ever reading anywhere that she had a cat at Maplecroft- I suspect with canaries and squirrels, that makes sense.

Shelley @ Tue Mar 20, 2007 9:31 am wrote: Poor Lizzie, "Daddy took her T-Bird away"-

Personally, i can't blame Andrew for not wanting to pay that tax.
He was probably thinking what a lot of people today think about cars.
Horses were necassary for transportation or ones line of work back then
and were a necessity not a luxury.

Thanks Jeff.
Shell, the story about Lizbeth's later life at Maplecroft is in the Hatchet edition Vol 2, Issue 4, Aug/Sept 2005. If you are at the B&B you can read it there.
The issue is called "Lizzie Borden in Black and White."
Page 9. It's a pretty good news article.

Shelley @ Tue Mar 20, 2007 9:31 am wrote:You heard correctly, Jeff. Even today there are regulations for what qualifies as a "farm" in New England towns - and falls into a special property tax catagory. I heard the same story from Len Rebello. I believe the city was trying to discourage so many privately -owned livestock within city limits, and encourage the trolley cars and public transport. One horse did not qualify under "farm" and so a personal property tax was passed, sort of like the one we have today on our car. I imagine this was an outrage to farmer Andrew, and he decided to unload the horse. Poor Lizzie, "Daddy took her T-Bird away"- and she had to hoof it or hitch a ride- a sad thing for a young lady trying to move in genteel society.

So the Trolley Monopoly was behind this law?

I don't see Andy hitching up a horse to walk a mile. His home was located near his businesses. But what about his rent collecting?

PS Such personal property taxes are one cause of California's air pollution. Given the declining value of a car, and the lower taxes, anyone who can keeps a car much longer than in states where there is no such tax. Keeping cars from the 1950s and 1960s was one cause of air pollution (as I read around 1980 in a magazine).
Once a car is 12 years old the yearly registration is negligible, or so I was told then.
Also Calif used this law to outlaw manual transmissions on V-8 cars since the 1970s.
Those who live in the Golden State can comment from their experiences. The yearly registration was about equal to the original sales tax.

Not being in the Rust Belt (salt on streets and roads) allows cars to last much longer. No frost to create potholes either.

There are several references to Lizzie having cats at Maplecroft. I can find them for you if you wish. See the Kent, Radin, Williams and Spiering's books.

Obviously she preferred dogs. Are there differences between people who prefer one over the other? Maybe another clue to her personality!

Oh yes, Harry- let us have the kitty tales! I wonder if they were her pets or just brave tabbies who dared to venture into the yard?

Like that old TV show "You Asked For It"

From Kent:

"... She could be seen almost daily, accompanied by her favorite cat and dogs, tending the squirrel and bird houses that filled the large side yard. On these occasions, there would often be cookies for the neighborhood children and permission for them to pick up the fallen fruit."

I'm kinda of suspicious about that paragraph. Were there fruit trees at Maplecroft?

From Williams, p249:

"Previously, the Sunday Post reporter had visited the splendid 14 room house where Lizzie Borden lives with her four servants, two bull terriers and three cats of the ordinary back-fence variety."

Then on page 252, I believe quoting the Emma interview:

"She fairly dotes on the dogs, cats and squirrels that are at the French street mansion. She always was fond of pets. Now, any person with a heart like that could never have committed the awful act for which Lizzie was tried and of which she was acquitted."

Spiering, p218+:

"... Animals became Lizzie's passion, especially the helpless, the orphaned, the abused. There were always several cats and litters of kittens around Maplecroft. She purchased peanuts regularly and put them on the lawn for the squirrels. She took in stray dogs and when they died had them buried in Pine Ridge Cemetery of the Animal Rescue League, near a marker she erected which read SLEEPING AWHILE."

Spiering is always suspect. Were Lizzie's dogs strays at one time?

And Radin, p229:

"A bull terrier was seated beside her whenever she went for a ride, and there were always several cats and a litter of kittens around Maplecroft."

Very similar wording between Spiering and Radin. Mmmmmm....

It's been said that pet owners tend to get dogs that look like themselves. What do you think?

Hmmmmm, well, yeah there is a slight resemblence, I think............lol

Where have I read that anecdote that Lizzie was out driving in the car with Mr. Terry and a poor peddlar's dog ran right under her car? She is supposed to have gathered up the poor beast, drove to the vet, paid for its care and returned it to the happy owner when it had recovered.

I am picturing the dogs chasing the cats chasing the canaries. Must have been lively times at Maplecroft. I cannot recall fruit trees at Maplecroft but she may have had blueberry and quince bushes or strawberries.

I doubt a Boston bull would have been a stray. The breed was popular among the well-heeled Back Bay society ladies in Boston as lapdogs and were carefully bred for the "carriage trade"

The canaries are in the Boston Sunday Herald of 6 April 1913, Hatchet issue as I specified has the transcription. For a free download to your desktop of the issue:
http://www.hatchetonline.com/HatchetOnl ... eIssue.htm

Page 13.
Can't make it more simple than that!

I can't find the *horse tax* anywhere.
I've checked the Evening Standard, the Boston Globe, Pro-Jo, NYT, the first several days of the FRGlobe and the Sourcebook and Rebello and Porter and Phillips. (I've been busy.)
Can anyone point me to where the info is on this tax?
Thanks!

Hi Kat, If all else fails, how about the tax assessors office in Fall River. If you have someone who's worked there awhile they might know some of the history or might have documentation in the archives.

Thanks! Or somebody could ask Len who was given as reference?
I'd like to find out about it- it's an interesting factoid.
It affects why Andrew may have sold the horse, and how often and how the Bordens could get to Swansey after that, and even might give some idea as to when that curb was built out front.
That driveway curb would be quite a bump to go up and over with a horse & buggy. You'd think that would have been made flat there. Harry suggested to me a driveway tax even as a possibility- there could be peripheral subjects involved in why Andrew got rid of his horse- (and not the hay).
I would like to know more.

I still believe that 70-yr old Andy might be looking to simplify his life.
Keeping hay? Could be for any use around the house (kindling? old-style mattresses? etc?)

Horses have to fed every day even if not in use. Rare use may mean renting a horse and wagon.

Didn't Uncle John do that?