Lizzie Borden Society Forum

At least one topic, here or in the archives, has touched on this subject, but I'd like to hear what others may think about the coincidence of Andrew's face having 11 cuts and the likely time of death being about 11 a.m.

Bridget mentions hearing the the clock tower bells striking eleven from her attic room. Do we know if the clock tower bell could be heard in the sitting room?

Do we know whether the Bordens had a clock that chimed? (Granted, it is unlikely that two clocks would chime simultaneously.)

My own clock chimes too fast, it seems to me, for a person to whack once with each chime. It's about once a second. But bells on clock towers sound the chimes much more slowly - would it be slow enough to whack, whack, whack, once with each strike?


Could this be the reason the murderer stopped at 11?

I can't see any reason why the bell could not have been heard in the sitting room if it could be heard in Bridget's room. Both are on the south side of the house.

The official autopsy report on Andrew Borden lists only 10 wounds, not 11.

http://www.lizzieandrewborden.com/Crime ... Borden.htm

I don't know exactly what kind of clocks the Borden's had but there seemed to be quite a few. Bridget was questioned about the clocks in the Trial (page 268+):

"Q. Now you speak about the time as 6.15 in the morning, quarter past six, on looking at the clock. How many clocks were there in the house?
A. Well, there is one in the sitting-room, one in the kitchen, one in my bedroom, and I think there was one in Mr. Borden's bedroom.
Q. Any other?
A. That is all I remember; all to my knowledge.
Q. Did you ever see a clock in the parlor?
A. Yes, sir; I think there was a clock in the parlor; but I am not sure.
Q. Do you recall whether there was a clock in Miss Lizzie's room or Miss Emma's room?
A. No, there might be there; I don't remember.
Q. You, don't know about that?
A. No, sir.
Q. There were clocks enough, weren't there?
A. Yes, sir; there was.
Q. One in the sitting-room, you said?
A. Yes, sir."

Hmmm...Mr. Robinson refers to "11 strokes" in his closing argument for the defense.

http://www.lizzieandrewborden.com/Crime ... binson.htm

And the autopsy appears to describe two separate injuries in the same No. 7 wound:

"Began 1/2 inch below No. 5, 3 inches in length downward and outward, penetrating cavity of skull. On top of skull was a transverse fracture 4 and 1/2 inches in length"

http://www.lizzieandrewborden.com/Crime ... Borden.htm

Mr. Knowlton, in his closing argument for the prosecution, said he doubted Andrew even lived to hear the clock strike 11. It makes sense for the prosecution to propose the murder took place as early as possible, to allow more time for cleanup.

At any rate, I just wasn't sure if the time of death and the time of day have any correlation beyond coincidence. The picture in my mind with the clock chiming with each whack is chilling. Depending on how loud the bells are (in the house or from the tower) they might cover some of the sound of the hatchet on bone.

Thanks, Harry, for your response.

It reminds me of the Legend of Lizzie Borden movie- didn't the clock strike there during the whacks on Andrew?
(He was hit 10 times, Abby 19.)
The closing arguments, as you know, are not testimony and are somewhat biased.

Anyway, I found an artcle in the Fall River Globe of 1927, June 1st actually, that describes a bell in Court Square and Granite where the stable and city jail was that rang at 9 PM and 4 x during the day. It was "rung vigorously in case of fire."
I don't know if each time it was rung (other than for fire) it rang more than once.

Regofam- That is a chilling correlation to come up with. I thought about it last night until it creeped me out. You gotta love the coincidences.....
That was a good one!!!!

I'd guess most of the citizens of this forum alternate between examining the facts (such as they are) objectively and then dealing with the horror of what they lead you to.

I'd really like to know if that is in the movie Legend?

Harry tells me that the article I referred to was for the period of 1843-1870, and I see now the bell was put there in 1857.
However, the article goes on to describe a building of 1875, so it's a bit confusing. It's possible that bell still rang in 1892, but I don't know...maybe not.

Did the City Hall clock strike once or did it strike the number of hours?
I can't imagine the ruckus that would make every hour- 9 x, 10x, 11x, 12 times, Jeesh!
There is a church chime in Orlando that rings at noon and that's it.

Yes, it is in Legend.





Tracy...

Oh thanks!