Lizzie Borden Society Forum

This is ludicrous and the posting has been revised, evidently it was collected on a full moon with the dirt dug where her heart was, yada yada.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Lizzie-Borden-Grave ... dZViewItem

I shall be writing the seller and letting him know this was a little ole Sunday School teacher...

There sure are some sick S.O.B.s in this world.

Where does it say the description of the dirt and does any one know who the retard person is. Have you no respect for the dead?

I went to this sight and must say that this is very offensive. How dare this person disturb a final resting place. What in the world do they mean in a ritualistic way. I don't care what way, it is still something you do not do, a grave should be treated with respect.

No wonder Oak Grove closes their gates now and locks them.

Shelley @ Thu May 03, 2007 8:04 pm wrote:No wonder Oak Grove closes their gates now and locks them.

Yes...I agree.

Here's my question to the seller:
Question from theebmonique

Item: Lizzie Borden Graveyard Dirt (320109567794)
This message was sent while the listing was active.

I realize you have the right to sell what you want on ebay, but I want to let you know I feel offended by what I feel is disturbing the resting place of the dead. As a student of the Borden murder case, I want to share my love and respect of the case with anyone who will listen. I also see from your listing you are from Fall River and therefore are probably already familiar with the case.

Thank you for your time in allowing me to share my sentiments with you.

Tracy

p.s. You may be interested in checking out the following link:
lizzieandrewborden.com (forum)





Tracy...

Liz Crouthers @ Thu May 03, 2007 6:56 pm wrote:Where does it say the description of the dirt and does any one know who the retard person is. Have you no respect for the dead?

Liz, may I ask, what do you mean, when you say, "the retard person"? Are you referring to a retarded person or a stupid person? Before you answer that question, please note the following definitions, which I obtained from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary.

Retard: to slow up especially by preventing or hindering advance or accomplishment.
Retarded: slow or limited in intellectual or emotional development or academic progress.
Stupid: acting in an unintelligent or careless manner.

I hope, and I am assuming, you meant to say, the stupid person. If you meant to say, the stupid person, then, please, use the word stupid. As you can see from the above definitions, it is inappropriate to use the word retard.

Liz, I am sorry, if I upset you in anyway; it is certainly not my intention to do so. However, I find the word "retard" offensive; it is an insult to all of the mentally retarded citizens of the world, as well as their families. My son is mentally retarded; he is definitely retarded, but he is not stupid.

Now, to answer your question, if I can. I am not sure what you mean by, "Where does it say the description of the dirt..." I am assuming you want to know where it is stated about the dirt being dug where Lizzie's heart was. If this is so, then go into the above link, scroll down to the item for sale and click on the link provided; scroll all the way to the bottom and you will find it under: Lizzie Borden Graveyard Dirt #1. Unfortunately, I do not know who this person is. I really have no desire to know who would do such a repulsive, disgusting and disrespectful thing. Have they no sense of what is right and wrong? This is one of the most tasteless things, I have ever heard of. How can this seller live with themselves knowing they are selling such garbage? What some people won't do for a buck, it's enough to turn one's stomach!!!

I second that!

Over the years of visiting the grave, many horrible things have been left there, even more repulsive than this fruitcake who has danced around and scooped up a teaspoon of dirt. I have removed amulets, voodoo fetishes, women's personal hygiene products (used), vials of blood and urine, offensive notes, dead flowers, black roses(silk), and other garbage. There are a lot of sick, screwy people walking around out there who somehow think they may develop "coolness" by making up the most idiotic tales and doing the most bizarre acts and rituals (usually made up and given the stamp of authenticity by those even more idiotic and bizarre). I will have a look at the grave this afternoon and see if there is any evidence of digging.

Angel @ Fri May 04, 2007 6:03 am wrote:I second that!

THANKS, Ellen! You just made my day!

hyacinth @ Thu May 03, 2007 8:13 pm wrote:There sure are some sick S.O.B.s in this world.

Could not have said it better. Imagine the mind of the person selling this and even worse, the people, if any, bidding on it.

Isn't that against the law? Couldn't they find themselves in a heap of trouble by admitting they were digging (even a little) on someones grave? Isn't that vandalizing? You'd think E-Bay would have put a stop to it......

Harry @ Fri May 04, 2007 7:54 am wrote:

hyacinth @ Thu May 03, 2007 8:13 pm wrote:There sure are some sick S.O.B.s in this world.

Could not have said it better. Imagine the mind of the person selling this and even worse, the people, if any, bidding on it.

I agree, Harry. It is sad when the almighty buck means more than one's respect for the dead.

shakiboo @ Fri May 04, 2007 8:21 am wrote:Isn't that against the law? Couldn't they find themselves in a heap of trouble by admitting they were digging (even a little) on someones grave? Isn't that vandalizing? You'd think E-Bay would have put a stop to it......

I don't know how it can be called anything but vandalizing, Pam. As far as I know, it is against the law. These people, both seller and buyer (if there ever is one), need to get a life!

The person has revised this item to exclude all the ceremony and weirdness that went along with the collection of the dirt. I printed out the original listing when it first showed up on ebay and now the seller for whatever reasons has removed this description. Still repulsive though.
I have not received an answer from the seller on the exact day this dirt was removed. I can pretty much say that the digging did not happen during our stay in Fall River as we were at the cemetery morning, noon, and night for the most part and I do not remember the ground being dug in then. This just makes me sick. Shelley, I am so glad you keep the gravesite clean and free of weirdo debris. I love cemeteries and find all the destructiveness a bit much to handle.

Well for what it's worth, I reported them to E-Bay. So, keep an eye on them Bobbi and let me know if they get taken off. I won't be notified because they said it was confidential......

This seller has reached a new low in the Lizzie make-a-buck world. Yes, I think eBay would put a stop to the listing. The cemetery staff probably doesn't see him when he's doing it. IF he's doing it. Who's to say this dirt didn't come from any place?

He's dreaming of the price. And what's this on his link - the dirt
"cried"? The whole thing is sick.

This makes me very sad, my last visit there i noticed many chips in lizzies stone... what the heck is wrong with people? :(:(

It's really sad that because of a few really sick people, one of these days, we won't be able to walk quietly through the cemetaries, paying our respects to those who have gone on before. The gates will be locked and you'll have to make arrangements with the people who run them to be able to get in. Chipping her headstone? What is the matter with people! Taking a picture of it would be alot more satisfying, at least you'd be able to show it to others.....

Rest in Peace

shakiboo @ Fri May 04, 2007 8:45 am wrote:Well for what it's worth, I reported them to E-Bay. So, keep an eye on them Bobbi and let me know if they get taken off. I won't be notified because they said it was confidential......

It has been removed.....and all is well once again in Lizzieland!!!!

Good! I sent him/her a little note on ebay too, blasting him/her

I thought I was particularly "reserved" in my letter to the seller, I probably should have been more to the point. I doubt I will receive an answer from him/her. Thank you to those of you who also wrote the seller...and to you Shelley for reprting it to ebay.





Tracy...

Shelley @ Fri May 04, 2007 7:21 am wrote:Over the years of visiting the grave, many horrible things have been left there, even more repulsive than this fruitcake who has danced around and scooped up a teaspoon of dirt. I have removed amulets, voodoo fetishes, women's personal hygiene products (used), vials of blood and urine, offensive notes, dead flowers, black roses(silk), and other garbage. There are a lot of sick, screwy people walking around out there who somehow think they may develop "coolness" by making up the most idiotic tales and doing the most bizarre acts and rituals (usually made up and given the stamp of authenticity by those even more idiotic and bizarre). I will have a look at the grave this afternoon and see if there is any evidence of digging.

Shelley, I just want to say thank you for checking the grave to be sure that it is alright. I still can't believe people desecrate the grave by leaving these awful things there. If these people think so much of Lizzie to visit her last resting place you would think that they would treat it with some respect. It is an act of true kindness for you to go and take care of this, I'm sure it's not easy sometimes.

I meant a stupid, careless person. Sorry for the high school slang, just got carried away but the inconsiderant person selling that dirt. But really I meant no offense.

bobarth @ Sat May 05, 2007 7:34 am wrote:

shakiboo @ Fri May 04, 2007 8:45 am wrote:Well for what it's worth, I reported them to E-Bay. So, keep an eye on them Bobbi and let me know if they get taken off. I won't be notified because they said it was confidential......

It has been removed.....and all is well once again in Lizzieland!!!!

Thanks Bobbie for keeping an eye on it and letting us know, I thought E-bay would take it off if they knew, but ya just never know. It actually fell into several catagories from "Offensive" to "trying to profit from a tradgady" Glad they did something about it!

Yea i hope that person at least got fined or something.

Liz Crouthers @ Fri May 04, 2007 5:23 pm wrote:I meant a stupid, careless person. Sorry for the high school slang, just got carried away but the inconsiderant person selling that dirt. But really I meant no offense.

Liz, thank-you for clarifying what you meant; I appreciate it. I realize that the word "retard" is a high school slang word, unfortunately, there are many people well beyond high school age in this world, who use this word inappropriately. I was pretty sure that you did not mean to be offensive, it is just that slang words are not always harmless words. Hopefully a lesson was learned; some slang words can and do hurt the innocent. Again, thank-you.

I want to thank everyone who contacted E-Bay, today. Unfortunately, I was scheduled to work; the nature of my job does not allow me the opportunity to do things like notifying E-bay of such a disgusting matter.

Bottom line - Mission accomplished!!!

shelley, len and I were at Lizzie's grave today and her grave looks undisturbed. We think this guy got the dirt from his back yard

Jeff @ Sat May 05, 2007 2:57 pm wrote:shelley, len and I were at Lizzie's grave today and her grave looks undisturbed. We think this guy got the dirt from his back yard

Thank-you for this information, Jeff. Hopefully this dirt was from his back yard and not some other gravesite.

There was an old votive with a puddle of melted wax 2 blue roses and some coins but it did not look as if any digging occured over the grave where her heart would be or anywhere else.

I got a response from the seller sometime over the weekend. According to the seller, the dirt was collected a few months ago. Lizzie was an actress and a sweet woman who could not protect herself from many harmful things that happened to her. The dirts' energy is to protect children and is used to ward off sadness.

Ok, now we know.

bobarth @ Tue May 08, 2007 5:40 am wrote:I got a response from the seller sometime over the weekend. According to the seller, the dirt was collected a few months ago. Lizzie was an actress and a sweet woman who could not protect herself from many harmful things that happened to her. The dirts' energy is to protect children and is used to ward off sadness.

Ok, now we know.

Now I'm really confused

shakiboo @ Mon May 07, 2007 11:21 am wrote:

bobarth @ Tue May 08, 2007 5:40 am wrote:I got a response from the seller sometime over the weekend. According to the seller, the dirt was collected a few months ago. Lizzie was an actress and a sweet woman who could not protect herself from many harmful things that happened to her. The dirts' energy is to protect children and is used to ward off sadness.

Ok, now we know.

Now I'm really confused

Shakiboo - Was just relaying information that I had received from the seller.

When I emailed he seller I told him it was a slimy way to make some money. She totally twisted it. Here is what he said:

"Regarding the lizzie borden graveyard dirt. No it was not slimy, kind of arrid actually. Graveyard dirt is used in many hoodoo and voodoo as well as wiccan incantations. This dirt is full of the energy to protect children from pedophiles as Lizzie was abused by her father. Therefore anyone needing to protect a child and using spell craft would know that this was taken with permission, and used to assist those in need.
Make a buck? No, the proceeds of my sales for this go to protective child services in my area, and child molestation is a horrible and yes, slimy thing.
blessings to you."


I emailed him back and said "I wasn't referring to the dirt as slimy- I was referring to you. To disrespecting someone's grave by messing with it all to make a buck is disgusting."

Cannot believe this person.

I wonder who she got the permission from? Bobbie I understood what you were doing, it was the explanation that totally confused me..... That isn't at all what she/he had in the first listing. it was the 'Lizzie was an actress, and a sweet woman etc. that made me go HUH?

shakiboo @ Mon May 07, 2007 12:25 pm wrote:I wonder who she got the permission from? Bobbie I understood what you were doing, it was the explanation that totally confused me..... That isn't at all what she/he had in the first listing. it was the 'Lizzie was an actress, and a sweet woman etc. that made me go HUH?

That part about Lizzie being an actress and a sweet woman was in the email to me from the sender. I just had to share.

Here's the response I received from the seller...(my response to follow):
Question from rairose
rairose( 80)
Positive feedback: 100%
Member since: Oct-24-01
Location: MI, United States
Registered on: www.ebay.com

Thank you for your response regarding the lizzie borden graveyard dirt. Yes it may seem a bit odd to some, but it was given with permission, taken with respect and used for positive means.
You said you were a student of the borden case, I would love to hear more about what you know. Just to let you know, I have the dirt in a sacred vessel, and it is infusing crystals with light and energy. I thank you in advance for any further info you have regarding the case.
best wishes!

My response:
I posted a link in my previous question to you which will guide you to the most accurate and most informational site on the Borden murder case. lizzieandrewborden.com. In the forum area, we may disagree on various aspects of our beloved passion, but it would seem that your claiming to take dirt from Lizbeth's grave is not being met with warm greetings.

There is NO proof that Lizzie was abused by her father.

You really need to read up on your facts. There is enough factual information available through the website, including source documents, that you may soon understand why several of us find what you did so repulsive. Go to the forum section index.php

In your listing, I believe it said you were from Fall River, but in your response to me it seems to say you are from Michigan ? Now I am really having a hard time believing the dirt was really from Lizzie's grave and is now being used for good purposes ? Of course chils abuse is an awful crime, but you cannot realistically connect your 'cause' to Lizzie since, as I stated earlier, there is NO proof Lizzie was abused by her father. So many people try to use Lizzie's name to further their cause or their wallets...and yet truly know nothing about the details of the case. If you think you DO know something about the case, come to the forum for a refresher course. We are willing and eager to help anyone who thirts for more knowledge about one of the most confounding unsolved crimes in U.S. history.

Tracy
lizzieandrewborden.com (main)
index.php (forum)





Tracy...

Get a load of this guy. Here is his answer to me:

"That would assume that one had a christian based belief system, which by your statements I figure you have. Ok. Understand now where you are coming from.
But those from pagan, wiccan, woodoo and voodoo belief systems see it differently.
It is all a matter of personal perspective.
Blessings to you, and thank you for sharing your perspective."

What crap. Sorry, Tracy, I cannot be as patient and gracious as you are. I won't repeat what I wrote back.

Sorry- double posted

I never have much to do with E-Bay. I never go there except to put moustaches on supposed Lizzie portraits.

I once bought a nice scrapbook there near Christmas time and was so pleased with it I sent the guy a box of chocolates, to which he responded that in all his years of selling on E-Bay no one had ever given him a gift!

One other thing I bought, again around Christmas time, was so nice I overpaid the girl. I guess I'm not cut out to be an E-Bayer.

Angel @ Tue May 08, 2007 7:56 am wrote:Get a load of this guy. Here is his answer to me:

"That would assume that one had a christian based belief system, which by your statements I figure you have. Ok. Understand now where you are coming from.
But those from pagan, wiccan, woodoo and voodoo belief systems see it differently.
It is all a matter of personal perspective.
Blessings to you, and thank you for sharing your perspective."

What crap. Sorry, Tracy, I cannot be as patient and gracious as you are. I won't repeat what I wrote back.

Oh Ellen...if the scum even thinks about emailing me back again...he/she will get it with both barrels. Whovever it is is so full of poo-poo that their own stink is giving them illusions of granduer. I am betting he..or she, will not have the kahones to join up with the forum. I am thinking if they really believed in the good of Wiccan or Voodoo, they would not STEAL dirt from someone's grave...if it even came from Oak Grove to begin with. Then to claim they had PERMISSION ???...whew. Also...claiming at one point to being from Fall River...then the email I received saying Michigan ?...another...whew.





Tracy...

I think the only dirt that seller has is the dirt between his ears, in that hollow spot where is brain ought to be. There is no low point so low some people won't stoop to for a fast buck.

-1bigsteve (o:

1bigsteve @ Sat May 12, 2007 2:41 am wrote:I think the only dirt that seller has is the dirt between his ears, in that hollow spot where is brain ought to be. There is no low point so low some people won't stoop to for a fast buck.

-1bigsteve (o:

You can say that again!!