Lizzie Borden Society Forum

this is just an idea i had---let me know what you think.

supposedly a carbonized roll of paper was seen in the stove following the murders (i'm too lazy to look up who reported it right now).
on another thread, most agreed that a roll of paper would twist and move as it burned--shelly even did an experiment in the stove and found that the paper never kept its shape when it burned.

the "roll" was described as about 12 inches long, 1 1/2 inches wide (if i remember correctly) and it was "completely carbonized."

some have noted that the size of the "roll" would be the size of a hatchet handle. and that hatchet handles, being kiln-dried, would burn more quickly than regular kindling.

so i was wondering: would the "rings" of wood in such a handle burn at different rates--so that the darker rings would remain somewhat intact while the lighter wood in-between the rings would burn away? this could leave something behind that would look like a roll of paper. maybe?

i thought about this when i noticed the rings in a hammer-handle i have. if you look at the butt end of most wooden handles, the rings are quite visible.

does this make any sense to anyone?

p.s. was it mrs. bowen who saw something she would never repeat in the house that day? maybe she peeped in that stove before the cops did.

Libby, the dark rings in wood are the tree's summer growth and the lighter rings are winter growth. The dark rings are harder than the lighter rings (you'll discover this when you sand a piece of wood) but when a piece of wood burns the entire piece burns pretty much at the same rate. So if you put a hatchet handle in a stove the handle will burn to ash without leaving a "skin" or "hollow tube." Hatchet/hammer handles are usually made of hickory, a hard wood that burns hot.

My guess is that the "rolled up paper" that was seen in the stove was simply many layers of paper rolled tightly together or a cardboard tube like the type used for mailing rolled up documents, ie., wills, art work, etc. Since it still kept it's shape I think it was probably put in the stove just minutes earlier.

-1bigsteve (o:

Paper in 1892, especially newspaper had a higher rag content than modern paper, which might be a factor in the burn test. There are also variables in the type of heat source- slow burning smoldering embers, red hot coals, active high flames, air circulation in the fire box, down drafts, make of stove, contents in the firebox at the time (kindling and specifically what kind of kindling) ash levels,etc. etc. So many factors to take into consideration that each one would have to be tested and timed to really be scientific. I just used recycled cheap paper which carbonized quickly into flakes of ash in a short period in a hot firebox.

I wonder about that cylindrical roll....

As far as I can determine, Phil Harrington was the only person who testified to seeing it -- and his story changes somewhat between the time of the murders and the trial.

Initially, in his report dated the day of the murders, all he says is: "the ashes looked as though paper had been burned there" (Witness Statements)

Later -- at the Preliminary Hearing he says he saw "what appeared to be burnt paper."

But by trial these ashes resembling burnt paper become a piece of rolled up burnt paper still holding a cylindrical form about twelve inches by two inches. (Trial, 567+)

I'm doubtful ...

BTW That statement about seeing something in the house she would never repeat was taken from Mrs. Churchill (not Mrs. Bowen) by McHenry, who is definitely not a credible source, so it should probably be disregarded altogether.

yeah, that mrs. churchill comment is fun though.

almost as fun as a william borden recalling the murders aloud to his favorite hatchet.

it's true, i don't know much about wood.

i wonder if parchment paper would keep its shape better?

There are many papers available today in art stores that have a high rag content. Perhaps if anyone wanted to experiment that would be a place to start. I guess a grill could substitute for the cook stove with charcoal briquettes instead of coal?

Charcoal in a grill would be a good substitute for a wood stove or a fireplace for the experiment. The important part is setting the paper on embers or coals rather than on a blazing fire. Try to test this on a relatively windless day.

Just as an aside, rag content in paper refers to cotton content. This is usually noted with a watermark which is visible when the paper is held in front of a light source. It is expressed as a percentage, usually 25-100% cotton content. If a letterhead has been printed properly, when the sheet is held as it is meant to be read with the letterhead at the top, the watermark will also read correctly rather than upside down or backwards.

Wasn't Lizzie reading a copy of Harper's while she was waiting for her flats to heat? I always thought the rolled up "cylinder" was the magazine she had finished reading.

It sounds like the best kind of paper to test by burning over coals is money!

nbcatlover @ Fri Jul 20, 2007 4:06 pm wrote:Wasn't Lizzie reading a copy of Harper's while she was waiting for her flats to heat? I always thought the rolled up "cylinder" was the magazine she had finished reading.

I think that is probably the best explaination, nb. Lizzie may have tired of the magazine and just put it in the stove. It may have been as simple as that.

-1bigsteve (o:

Kat @ Mon Jul 23, 2007 8:44 pm wrote:It sounds like the best kind of paper to test by burning over coals is money!

Ooooo, if Andrew heard you say that...

-1bigsteve (o:

It would have to be BIG money- at least it would have the rag content.

A magazine does sound like a candidate tho!