Lizzie Borden Society Forum

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070926/ap_ ... il_spector

Still warm off the press.

I was disappointed in this verdict, and have been following the trial. I think he may be guilty, who commits suicide in a stranger's house with their purse strapped to their shoulders? And his history of violence against women with a gun was enough for me. I think the gun accidently went off in a struggle, and he needs to be held accountable. He is a drunk.

The thing is, there was no verdict - the jury was split 10:2. I heard only a little bit ago that prosecutors intend to retry the case.

Smudgeman @ Wed Sep 26, 2007 3:54 pm wrote:I was disappointed in this verdict, and have been following the trial. I think he may be guilty, who commits suicide in a stranger's house with their purse strapped to their shoulders? And his history of violence against women with a gun was enough for me. I think the gun accidently went off in a struggle, and he needs to be held accountable. He is a drunk.

I agree. I don't think she commited suicide. I think he was pulling some stupid, idiotic stunt with that gun and it went off. It was his gun, it should have been left in a safe place, it is not a toy, so he is completely responsible for what happened. There is no way I would ever dream of waving a gun in anyone's face, loaded or not, for any reason. In my opinion this guy is an idiot. A woman is dead because of this jerk. Maybe they will nail him the second time around. I hope.

-1bigsteve (o:

Unreal.

Hearing the driver testified Spector saying, "I think I shot someone." was enough for me.

Irresponsible manslaughter, cut & dried.

Yeah, that line is as importent as "I don't know but what she is dead, too, for I thought I heard her come in..."

We looked all over and could not find that Lizzie said that.
We do find her response, at inquest, 78(35)
Q. Did you make any search for your mother?
A. No, sir.
Q. Why not?
A. I thought she was out of the house; I thought she had gone out. I called Maggie to go to Dr. Bowen's. When they came I said, "I don't know where Mrs. Borden is." I thought she had gone out.
Q. Did you tell Maggie you thought your mother had come in?
A. No, sir.
Q. That you thought you heard her come in?
A. No, sir.
Q. Did you say to anybody that you thought she was killed up stairs?
A. No, sir.
Q. To anybody?
A. No, sir.
Q. You made no effort to find your mother at all?
A. No, sir.

Harry and I were discussing famous mistrials and the ones we thought of, like the Menendez brothers, got the right verdict the second time around. So things are hopeful.

So, let see, we are expected to believe that Lana went to Spector's mansion just to kill herself in front of a guy whom she had met just a few hours earlier. This guy gives her his gun to complete the deed, while he watches her put the gun in her mouth and pull the trigger? What's wrong with this picture? Better yet, what's wrong with this man?

Who in the world would go to a complete stranger's house with the intent to commit suicide in front of that person? To my knowledge, as well as, experience - suicide victims, who are serious about doing themselves in, commit the act alone.

I think this guy has bigger problems than we will ever know. If it is true that Spector was once overheard spouting at a party, that all women should be shot in the head, then it is very unfortunate that his trial ended up as a mistrial. Hopefully, the case will be retried and end with Spector being committed to a mental hospital, because I believe that this man desperately needs help.

I found the following web sites which may or may not be reliable, but interesting:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,298251,00.html
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_a ... 596956.ece
http://billboardpublicitywire.com/relea ... 518308.htm

Now, now, Judy. How could you not believe the defense's theory?

It is so absurd that if it wasn't for the seriousness of the situation and I was on the jury, I would still be rolling on the floor laughing.

The following two things IMO are obvious:

1) She didn't commit suicide.
2) He didn't deliberately murder her.

Considering his LONG history of pointing guns at people who try to leave it would seem to me his luck ran out and the gun went off.

I can easily see a situation where he points the gun at her mouth, she attempts to push it away and it discharges. That would account for his "I think I shot someone" comment.

I'm not sure what was the actual crime he was charged with and that was probably the reason for the hung-jury. I can't imagine that the 10-2 vote was for not guilty. The jury was at one time 7-5 when the judge modified his instructions. That leads me to think the jury was hung up on the technical details of the charge.

The complaint (which is still posted on the CourtTV website) charged a single count of murder. I'd think the Second Degree specificity came into play based in part on the scene - her being found seated, purse slung over the shoulder, etc.)

Spector was rich, and he got off. I think it always goes that way. People like him have the money to hire private investigators and their own experts to butt heads with the prosecution's experts.

If he still has money when the second trial comes around, he'll walk.

I think they said on Court tv that he has a mental disease - schzophrenia or bi-polarism. Still, I think all that shaking of his hands on camera was done purposely.

The Menendez Brothers spent all their money by the time the second trial came around. Leslie Abramson ended up quitting the case, and Eric's attorney (Jill Lansing) might have too. They had basically nothing by the time their re-trial came around. I think that second trial went real fast, too.

Robert Blake was acquitted. If that was Harry or Dougoh, assuming they are not rich, they would have been thrown in prison with hardly a Miranda warning read them.

Leona Helmsley was found guilty, tho. Didn't they let her out early because of the health of her husband? Seems like it. If so, if it were me or Kat we'd be told to f off if we asked to be released for that.

Claus vonBulow is a good example. Hung jury the first time; walked the second time.

Does Paris Hilton's horrific prison sentence count?

Harry @ Fri Sep 28, 2007 8:00 am wrote:Now, now, Judy. How could you not believe the defense's theory? ...

Well, Harry... of course, I believe the defense's theory - - - - NOT.

Harry @ Fri Sep 28, 2007 8:00 am wrote: ... The following two things IMO are obvious:

1) She didn't commit suicide.
2) He didn't deliberately murder her.
...

I agree with you - it is blatantly obvious she didn't commit suicide. I can't see anyone, male or female, going to a complete stranger's house just to commit suicide; this makes absolutely no sense. When a woman goes to a man's house alone, they are non-verbally telling the man they are in agreement to having a sexual encounter with him. Now, Lana may have originally been in agreement for a sexual encounter, went to Spector's house, then for whatever reason changed her mind. This could very well have resulted in a deadly situation where it got out of hand and became a lethal situation for her.

IMO, Spector may not have actually meant to kill her, however, he did deliberately load the gun which did kill her. Why did he feel the need to point a loaded gun at her? A loaded gun would not be necessary if all he meant to do was threaten her with it, get her to be more cooperative, or prevent her from leaving him. An unloaded gun would have done the trick, since she would not have known if it was actually loaded or not. So, in a sense, he did deliberately kill her by loading the gun in the first place.

Anyone who has had any training, whatsoever, in the handling of a gun, knows that you NEVER point a loaded gun at a human being, unless you intend to kill them. This was the very first thing I was taught, when learning to load and fire a shotgun. So, what was Spector intending to do with the loaded gun? Why did he feel the need to get out his loaded gun in the first place?

I have to wonder why the jurors wanted a psychological profile of Lana Clarkson; to find out if she was suicidal? IMO, it wouldn't make any difference if she was suicidal - a suicidal person, male or female, would not go to the home of a complete stranger and ask to use their gun so that they can kill themselves in front of that stranger. So, why in the world would Spector, who is supposedly a sane man, give her his loaded gun so that she could kill herself. I think a psychological profile of Phil Spector would be much more beneficial; it is obvious this man has some real problems.

The following police report was written by officer B. Rodriquez, the night of the shooting: http://www.courttv.com/trials/spector/docs/report.html On page two, beginning with line 18, officer Rodriquez documented that Spector yelled, "I didn't mean to shoot her, it was an accident." "I have an explanation for this." Lana committed suicide? I don't think so. It is unfortunate that the officer didn't take down Spector's explanation.

Harry @ Fri Sep 28, 2007 8:00 am wrote: ... Considering his LONG history of pointing guns at people who try to leave it would seem to me his luck ran out and the gun went off.

I can easily see a situation where he points the gun at her mouth, she attempts to push it away and it discharges. That would account for his "I think I shot someone" comment. ...

I agree. This would also account for Lana having blood and gunshot residue on her hands, being found seated with her purse slung over her shoulder, and Spector's "I didn't mean to shoot her, it was an accident." comment. I think he was playing a twisted game of Russian Roulette, only this time his luck ran out and it resulted in the end of Lana's life.

I found the following videos interesting, especially the three in the middle and particularly the one titled The foreman's side. It takes about 30 minutes to load the videos, but it is well worth the wait. http://blog.courttv.com/phil_spector/

Check out the background of juror #10. http://www.courttv.com/trials/spector/0 ... s_ctv.html He lives near Spector's castle, has spotted Spector shopping at Target, said he did not know enough to have an opinion about Spector's guilt, enjoys firearms and shooting, had two friends who were shot accidentally, had a friend who took his own life with a gun and there was some question whether the death was intentional suicide or an accident. I may be wrong, but, it doesn't sound to me as if this guy would be impartial and would perhaps be influenced by his own past experiences.

doug65oh @ Fri Sep 28, 2007 12:47 pm wrote:The complaint (which is still posted on the CourtTV website) charged a single count of murder. I'd think the Second Degree specificity came into play based in part on the scene - her being found seated, purse slung over the shoulder, etc.)

I believe you are right about the Second Degree specificity, Doug.

The following link contains the original compliant: http://www.courttv.com/trials/spector/d ... laint.html

augusta @ Sun Sep 30, 2007 1:00 pm wrote:Spector was rich, and he got off. I think it always goes that way. People like him have the money to hire private investigators and their own experts to butt heads with the prosecution's experts.

If he still has money when the second trial comes around, he'll walk.

I think they said on Court tv that he has a mental disease - schzophrenia or bi-polarism. ...

Well, I'm afraid you may be right about the rich and famous getting away with murder. We can only hope Spector will not walk after the second trial.

The following link contains several links from Courttv regarding Spector's Bipolar Disorder: http://search.courttv.com/search?btnG=S ... or+bipolar

The following two links contain information regarding Bipolar Disorder:

http://www.bipolarcentral.com/aboutbipolar.asp

http://abilify.com/abilify/channels/bip ... errer=null