Lizzie Borden Society Forum

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Augusta, can you review my review on reviews?

I just can't figure out why they delete my Amazon book reviews and Wikipedia contributions, so perhaps I need feedback.

mb - You are an extremely nice man. This I know, and I want our Forum readers to know it. Your post seems out of character for you. I'm surprised you haven't been decapitated by now.

You did give Denise's article a review. That was good. As you said, it would be great if more members posted their thoughts on Hatchet articles.

I think anyone who is in the entertainment business or the writing field loves the applause. Denise asks for both - opinions pro or con. The kid's got guts.

She has always been a favorite writer of mine, back to when she wrote for the LBQ. I always went to her page and not once came away from it in any way disappointed. Oops - once, in Volume 3, No. 4 with "Did Lizzie have a Love Life"? I posted on that. I did not see anything new and the question/title was not answered. But, I added, it was quite complete of known sources of Lizzie in Love and would be good for someone researching that area or for newbies.

I have not yet read Denise's "... Screw" article. But off the top of my head did not see a comparison to the Borden case. I posted on that.

So you and I agree on two basics: Denise is a very good writer, and for us we did not see a comparison to Lizzie with this article.

Yes, I have wondered why Denise asks for feedback with her articles. Maybe she is printing the answers out to add to her portfolio. She wants the good and the not-so, which to me says she is striving to better herself (tho I don't know how she could improve on something that's already good). We don't know why she asks, but she does and even tho no one else does she is among friends here and deserves to be recognized and treated with the dignity she has earned as a wonderful writer.

It felt like you were being unnecessarily harsh on her. And if she does need support from feedback, I cannot imagine what your post must have felt like to her.

I think you went too far. If your post was in jest, and you are dangling a carrot for me to respond to, please post to tell us so.

You have your right to post what you want, of course, as we all do. But when it could be hurtful to someone, that needs to be addressed. Personally, I think you are dangling bait for us. That did not sound like you. I don't think you would purposely hurt anyone. People come first - always. The rest is ... just 'the rest'.

YES AUGUSTA:

Yes, my post above was a carrot to you because I find you very honest in your opinion and very flexible in your response to many other posts and mostly because of your wit in the Hatchet and seeing the funny side of life etc. And, because you were the last person DD responded to.

This post was not meant to be mean but to flush a writer out using wit, one who has asked for a review but never responded to my post about her article, even though she responded to 4 others.

So, I thought I would be funny and perhaps she would have something to say about it. I knew if she did not you would and a dialogue would be started. But in using you I am SORRY.

After thinking about it I thought it somewhat wrong and my action perhaps a little unsavory if not mean to use you in that way-------though I surmised you would take it well. Did not realize or expect the response you gave. Sorry for using you in this way. And after writing this original post, even I thought it might be a little over the top. I was not trying to be mean. But perhaps it was what was accomplished by writing this thread.

For that I understand if my apology is not accepted. But allow me to express it again. Sorry for using you as a carrot.

Before I begin again let me add that my apology to Augusta was sincere.

But, I stand by everything else I have said in my review. Except for the foolish Thread that I started here, which many may think in bad taste, and it was, I stand by everything I said in all Three of my post/reviews.

I was not trying to hurt anyone.

I was being critical, uncut and complete. Is that not what a review is all about? The truth as someone sees it. My last post/review, on another Tread, should have been my first, without worrying what the writer would think. If you are going to be a writer you better have some thick skin. Not everyone is going to like it.

Nowhere, nowhere in my review was I intensionally trying to be mean.

I was not even going to read DDs piece until she asked for feed back. I don't read book reviews about books or writers I don't care about. And, perhaps that is not a fair statement since I never read Henry James before.

Like I said, many including myself, may not really say what is on their mind since they do not want to insult. I am aware of that and I too practice restraint and temperance in critiquing someone's work, even though in doing so it may have a harsh or somewhat dull edge on it. To be true to myself this time I choose to be completely candid.

A writer is a writer is a writer, even if it is a long time member of this forum. If you ask for criticism you are going to get some, good and bad. I realize everyone wants to be kind. But sometimes being kind is being wrong or dishonest.

My review was not mean. I was not trying to go out of my way to be mean. I gave an honest, comprehensive, if somewhat exhaustive review, the way I saw it after receiving no response from someone who asked a question.

I think DD is an excellent writer, much better than what I am.

And, if you read my pieces you will find that I am a great fan of using BAIT, SNARES and HOOKS in my articles. Its an good tool to use-------most times.

And, yes I am still confused that she needs to ask for feedback. I never could or would.
Do I find that odd? Sorry, yes I do.
Is there anything wrong with it? NO!
But, I choose to be honest and mention it since I know there are others who feel the same.

When you put yourself out there, especially when you ask, some may be honest and respond. Or have we forgotten the way we tore KAREN CHANEY apart?

I just read Denise's response on the first thread of this topic. I did not see it last nite when I wrote my response to mb. Thank you for the apology, mb, but I am not due one.

All I saw last nite was your negatives in your review and then a post that looked like you were making fun of Denise. I pictured you being inundated with hate posts and Denise weeping through the weekend. I posted as well as I could respond.

Once again, all is right with the world.
- Augusta

mb: I tried to pm you but could not get through:

Dear Michael - You don't owe me any apology. I had not seen Denise's response to your posts at the end of the 1st thread on this subject when I posted to you last nite.

I thought people might be very angry at you for posting negatives, then posting the humorous one about it. I tried to protect you, while at the same time protecting Denise's feelings.

No wonder you were surprised at my answer! I didn't understand at first why you said you were. Geez! I am embarrassed and ashamed. This is truly Episode 965: "Lucy Posts on the Forum".

I am sorry if I caused you any hurt feelings. I would never do that on purpose. You know that.

Of course you can post to me in that fashion again! It's fine. No rules in friendships, please.

Your friend,
Sherry

GEE, sorry I made you feel that way.

No, no, no, no, never felt hate. Hate had absolutely nothing to do with it. It may be labled a little brutish in trying to dragoon a response to a not so glaring review, and perhaps meant to be somewhat harsh in a brassy way, BUT NEVER HATEFUL.

BESIDES, I WAS POSITIVE OF TWO THINGS----one, that DD is a writer, and if so, can/and will take it; perhaps not well, but with a stiff upper lip and if not, with her fist to the screen. Either way, as a writer I was sure she would endure no injury. I will admit, I strived for a response from DD but did so using truthful measures.

But, I was really surprise that you took it so negatively. My error in judgement, surprised me. I did not mean in using you, just having a little fun with you and DD and hoping to stimulate some conversation, as I do in many of my posts.

It was not meant to be hateful or negative but Critical. Yes, on the negative side of critical, but a literary critique, targeting what I perceived as an error. My opinion you see. If you have ever read book and movie reviews I am sure you have seen some very opinionated critiques.

Hate is cancerous behavior which only destroys the person feeling it. I'm just very opinionated and many times use words/language to stimulate others into expressing the same. It's what writers do.

Sorry I moved you so S.

Now, lets look at Hemingway's, The Sun also Rises......

Borrrrrrrrrring ! Read it in High School and again last year.

Still a bore, tedious, flat, stale, about a bunch of wandering spoiled brats with dull lives, having nothing to teach us and not the least entertaining or surprising.

Perhaps Mr. Hemingway's entry into the literary world of novel writing opened up a whole new way of saying things in simple speech, but his description about the period's "Lost Generation" is a metaphor used then, but just does not lend itself to today or modern literary tastes.

One finds himself caring nothing for these pathetic pampered hellions, with the exception of the main female character Brett, who's promiscuity takes us a little by surprise and who's behavior would get her a bit part, if not the leading lady's roll in today's more "Madonna" like romantic pulps.

Now that's "mean", and if Hemingway were alive today I would send it to him. The bigger the writer the more honest we must be......and if he read this, I am sure he would laugh or tear it up, and get back to his wine

And as for my review of it.

mb - I think you misread. I didn't say you said anything with 'hate' behind it. I was fearing you might have, uh, oh heck, stuck your ass out there asking for people to bite you. I was afraid that you would get some hate mail/posts from others on the Forum (hate here used as an umbrella term). Generally we are a peaceful community, supportive and positive. You're a very nice man, and I understood where you were coming from but you rabble roused a bit, which could have resulted in bad feedback from others. I wanted to put you into perspective for readers by essentially saying that you're a good person and addressed what could have been taken as cuts. I thought that you could have said the same thing in a softer manner. So I thought if I addressed that issue to you, others here may read it and think there was no need for them to post critically to you.

I was trying to play the peacemaker for both you and Denise. "Blessed are the peacemakers", you know? Right ... (That's a general eyeroll, not directed at you.)

I thought Denise could take negative criticism; she's been writing for a long time. But I don't know her personally, and for all I knew she could have been very brittle. I felt the need to soften words she could have taken as blows.

I'm not mad at you; never was. As it turns out, Denise is okay with criticisms. I wasn't hollering at you; I was trying to protect you and Denise. I could not post humorously back to your 'carrot' post to me. I think it would have looked as if we were both slamming her, so I took the route of diffusion. (Is that a word?)

I'm okay. Denise is okay. Peace be with you.

[/u]

Yes Augusta: something wrong with my PM mail. Need to talk to Stefani about it

No need for the concern post. I understand.

Please understand, I am nor a critic and struggle to utter the word "writer". Though it may not appeared so, I tried to be unbiased and impartial. In doing so, I took a professional approach and critiqued the piece rather than give a casual opinion.

I understand that DD is a friend of yours A and friend to many others on this forum. But please do not mis-understand------- to me she is a stranger; perhaps a wonderful and kind person, but I do not know her, just her article. Thus, it was much easier for me to be objective or critical, and that was for her benefit to accept or reject. In my first post I tried to be nice, but I am not good at being nice without being honest or speaking my mind.

Again, calling DD a stranger does not mean I am rejecting her as a friend in the future, or as a writer, or human being, just that I have never met her. I never met most people on this forum, including RAYS and AUDREY. (would it surprise you if I told you my name is really Erica?) All strangers.

And that being said, I am not making comparisons between any particular members, just that most of us are strangers and it is much easier to hit a stranger in the face with a pie.



So you and I can Chill now A, yes?

Just seen your post above Augusta. Missed it before.

Thank you for your concern. I understand and appreciate your concern and am a little stressed that I caused you to fret so. Sorry.

I have gone over this many, many times but what I was trying to accomplish was a professional approach, writer to writer.

I did make a joke about Amazon and Wiki because some critics there are very critical. I was making a joke about my review. My review was meant to be done in a "professional" manner not "Casual" or "Personal". Just a dry, hard hitting and honest assessment.

Your response took me completely by surprise.

But all is good. As it always was for me. Thanks for your concern and attention.

(I once had these two very good friends. They were lovers on the rocks. I got between them, to help them. Gave my opinion. Told them what was wrong. She slapped me in the face and he pushed me down the stairs.) So I understand how you feel. You were trying to help. I appreciate that.

Yes Augusta:


In a more casual approach, I liked DDs piece. I was happy that I did not pass it up.

I learnt a little about H. James and was surprise how interesting his story Turn of the Screw really was. The delivery could not be more concise.

To say it was well written goes without saying. She's a very good writer and to just say, "HEY, YOUR A GOOD WRITER DUDE", Hey, should go without mention. I went to the "meat" of the piece.

But yes, from a causal reader's point of view I enjoyed it. I'm not just saying that. And yes, I'm sure if she had connections she could work for any magazine she wished. My previous mention of the Strand and Esquire was not just a complement but the truth as I saw it.

As in my poetry (if you read my last one in the Hatchet) I always see the dark side of things, search for the negatives, the sadness in life or the faults in heros.

It's a flaw in my character that I can not control, so I try to manage it and put it to work for me.

Now Augusta I'm off to read your piece. Stay-tuned (just joking!)

mb - Yes, you and I are fine. Just an amusing mix-up there. Right, it's not a great review if you just say "it's good!". I notice, tho, that the articles in The Hatchet are real good. I have enjoyed the many subjects in the magazine so much, and I have loved learning more - and more - and more! - about Fall River, I don't notice anything wrong with most pieces. I'm not looking for it. I get so caught up in the article, I end up saying, "Wow - that was good!" Usually something would have to stick out for me to point out what I thought was a flaw.

I did critique professionally for awhile years ago. I loved it. But I knew at the start of reading a piece that I was asked to do a critique, so kept very alert for things that were not in the best interest of writer or reader. I had to catch everything, even punctuation. I was extremely thorough. I can take a hatchet to a piece, but always softly, very softly. I'm not saying you should be real soft - you just be yourself.

Actually I do not know Denise at all, other than reading her material.

I laughed over the way you ended your last email here. But this is serious: I've started to read your article on Interlachen, and I will be posting a review on it. Now, aren't you glad I'm a softie?