Lizzie Borden Society Forum

This is something I wondered about for sometime.

We know that the Police said it was warm in the hayloft of the barn.

We know that the two boys known as Brownie and me (brown and barlow) said that it was cool in the hayloft.

Lizzie was in the barn before the police or the two boys.

Is it likely that when lizzie was in the barn, it had not warmed up yet ? We know from pictures that there were trees beside and behind the barn.

At that time of the day could the trees have kept the barn cool, until later when the police entered it.

Could we today, make some kind of an experiment.

The original barn is gone, along with the trees. The new barn undoubtebly has insulation where as the old barn did not. So I would think we could not really use the new barn for this.

We know what the temerature was that day, assuming that they took temperature then the same way they do today, in the shade.

Could we built a scale model with say artificial trees, or something to take the place of the trees, to provide shade, to find out what the temperature was in the barn on Aug 4th 1892 ?

Would we also need to know the wind velocity, barometric pressure, and amount of humidity too. Listen to me getting into more details than might be necessary I guess. The breeze that day would be something to think about though.

If I remember correctly, the general consensus was it was hot, and some had expressed doubt that she could have withstood the heat in the loft. Thinking of myself I believe I could easily.

From what I undstand, it was very hot that day, and very hot in the barn. Apparantly, the police had gone up there because they didn't believe Lizzie could stay up in the barn loft for 20 minutes. And they claim it was very hot. I could be wrong.

I just returned to the KC area after living four summers in Georgia. We had a barn with a hayloft and one could go up there around 10 in the morning and it was already sweltering, especially in Aug.

I remember someone once posting on this forum that they did not know about humidity in 1892. I don't know if they measured the wind and the barometric pressure back then.

I was thinking along the lines that since we know where the barn was and since we can tell how far the sun is up at that time of day at 92 second street. That if we could use the pictures avaliable of the property in the 1890's to figure out the height of the trees. Then we could find out how much shade was provided and do some kind of experiment to find what the temperature in the barn was.

I realize that something of this sort might only be so accurate, but it would at least give us an indication of what the temperature in the barn really was.

Another thing I have wondered about, is that if Lizzie was affected by the drugs that she was given, so that she was not sure what she was saying at the inquest.

Then perhaps she spent much of her time on the first floor of the barn where it would have been cooler. Then Lizzie might have been more likely to stay in the barn for the length of time that she claimed that she did.

I don't know as though it would be all that important for us to know what the temperature was in the barn on August 4th, 1982. Even if we knew the temperature, humidity, wind velocity, barometric pressure, etc; it would still be a matter of individual opinion as to whether it was a sweltering hot, warm or cool day. What feels sweltering hot to some people, feels like an ideal temperature to others.

That's true Twinsrwe, and the only person who's opinion would matter, regarding how hot and uncomfortable the barn was, is Lizzie. But I don't remember reading anywhere where she even voiced an opinion about it.

Lizzie did say it was "very hot" in her Inquest testimony. (p74+):

"Q. When you got through looking for lead did you come down?
A. No, sir, I went to the west window over the hay, to the west window, and the curtain was slanted a little. I pulled it down.
Q. What else?
A. Nothing.
Q. That is all you did?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. That is the second story of the barn?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Was the window open?
A. I think not.
Q. Hot?
A. Very hot."
……………………..

"Q. I now call your attention, and ask you to say whether all you have told me- I don't suppose you stayed there any longer than necessary?
A. No sir, because it was close.
Q. I suppose that was the hottest place there was on the premises?
A. I should think so. "

As the old saying goes, "It ain't the heat-it's the humidity." The highest temperature for August 4th in Fall River was recorded by the newspapers as around 78 or 80 degrees. Little attention was given to the humiditY by the various weather bureaus in those times. Some years ago I tried to discover the humidity on that day in Massachusetts - there wasn't any information to be had.

I can tell you from experience: I have a small shed on my property. You can spend time in it when the temperature is high, providing the humdidty is low. When the temperature and humidity are high, it isn't a place you'd want to be. I sizzles!

Ah.......thanks Harry, when I read what you wrote I remembered reading it. lol