Lizzie Borden Society Forum

I'm pretty well into Dr. Dolan's testimony from The Preliminary Hearing. I read something last night that kept me thinking about it for most of the day. He was being questioned about Abby's head wounds. (page 46). Q. Now you tell us of a glancing scalp wound on the left side of the head over the left ear? A. Yes Sir Q. You think that wound might have been given under what circumstances? A. While standing up, and facing. That answer-----While stading up and facing. I cannot imagine that moment of realization when she knew that she was going to be hurt badly or die. She had to have panicked, her fight or flight response was curtailed because she was trapped on that side of the bed. That got me really thinking. The dresser near the bed had a mirror on it. If she were bending over to dust or whatever, if she heard someone on the stairs, normal response would be either look at the door, or look in the mirror. Now if she saw Lizzie, she wouldn't probably have thought twice because Lizzie lived there and that was the way to her room. Even if someone snuck up the stairs, to enter the doorway without being seen or heard - I'll say mmmmm maybe. Even if they were sneaking in the room, I wondered if the floor was creaky. So I wondered did the person hide in there & just charge her & start swinging the hatchet? Or if it was Lizzie would she have walked in, start a conversation as she got closer to her then just pull the hatchet which she could have hidden by holding it in her skirt. For some reason that statement about "standing & facing" just really got to me. What does everybody else think about this or am I just looking too deep for an explanation of what happened?

Oh, it is certain that Abby saw whoever came into the room. You can even hear feet on the stairs clearly as soon as anyone starts up. The fact that Abby never tried to get away across the bed, or put up any defense tells me she knew who it was who came in. She was either arguing and facing the person or, realizing something was going on behind her suddenly at close quarters, spun around and received that frontal blow to just behind the left ear with the skin hinge in back.

Abby's murder probably happened quickly, not a lot of time for response or thought. The blood evidence seems confined to a specific area rather than appearing randomly around the room. If the scalp wound was the first inflicted, it would have bled quite a bit because it wasn't fatal. Abby didn't have much to defend herself with, perhaps pillows from the bed or dresser drawers pulled from the dresser. Abby was heavier than Lizzie and could probably have moved Lizzie easily if she ran into her or pushed her. Abby might not have thought of any of that if she was immobilized by panic.

I guess under ordinary circumstances Lizzie might be able to approach Abby without cause for concern, but what about the adversarial relationship between Lizzie and Abby? Wouldn't an approach by Lizzie to within arm's length cause some alarm on Abby's part? Maybe if Lizzie was carrying something which belonged in the guest room it would be less alarming.

It's possible Lizzie or whomever pursued Abby upstairs and cornered her. I first thought that if so, Abby would possibly have been able to escape through the front door....but of course that was locked securely....making you wonder if it was done so that she could NOT escape!

Although if she WAS pursued, I would think she would have screamed..alerting Bridget.

Since blows number 2-19 were in the back of the head, it's seemed most probable that Abby fell into the position she was found it after the first blow. And then the rest were administered to the back of the head while the killer straddled her back.

I agree with Shelley that Abby faced her killer. Whether it was a surprise attack or Abby was in conversation with the killer right before the blow, we can't know. But if the killer was Lizzie, then proably the later.

Yes, the wound speaks volumes. For the hing of the flap to be in back, the cut had to have come from the front. Given the fact that head wounds bleed like mad, and Abby was a heavy woman, and no drag marks were found, it is a safe bet to conclude she died where she fell, poor thing- wedged between a dresser and the bed- what a sad end to any life.

I hadn't thought about a theory where Abby is chased into the room; have always thought she was there cleaning up. Hmmmm, curious. That theory would explain to some degree why the front door was locked when it was usually open during the day.

That said, why would Abby have not tried to bar the door. I guess she could have tried and had it forced open. We will never know for sure.

The problem I have with the chased upstairs theory is that there are no defense wounds at all on Abby- not on her forearms or anywhere. I can't imagine someone turning their back on a killer, a stranger, or standing stock still to be hacked up without putting up a hand or arm or something. Knowing how steep those stairs are and walking up them a lot in long skirts myself, an old gal in Abby's condition and size would have been grabbed and killed before she got up the first 5 steps-right there on the staircase. I expect Lizzie would have heard THAT

Chasing someone up a steep stairway with a hatchet sounds like a good way to get kicked in the head!

The chased up the stair theory was printed in the Fall River Herald in their first article on the case. It's the first article in David Kent's Lizzie Borden Scrapbook.

The journalist describes how Abby was bewildered by the murder of Andrew and sought refuge upstairs in her room (he does say "her room", not the guest room).

Obviously, he was a reporter who was grabbing bits of info and hearsay on the first day.

Yes, it's probably doubtful Abby was chased anywhere...it's pretty likely she was very familiar with her killer.

And she probably wasn't even backed into that area between the bed and dresser...because I think if someone pulled a hatchet on me and was backing me into a corner, I'd be shreiking at the top of my lungs for help!

It seems more like she must have turned to speak to the killer, who probably had the hatchet hidden (between the folds of a long dress?)

Incidently, was the style of dress that Lizzie wore of the type that a weapon could be hidden? Or was it a tightly pulled back style of skirt which would have given no real place to conceal anything?

I've been busily reading the inquest testimony the past couple of days and will probably read the entire trial transcript from beginning to end...just to refresh my memory on everything.

I love the source documents. When you read someone's actual testimony it's almost like you can see them saying it. I'm still reading Dr. Dolan in the preliminary hearing, and wow did the lawyers give him a hard time. So far as I can tell he's kept his emotions in check.

The skirts of the period were very full from the hip down, and yes, it is easy to hide a hatchet in a fold. Lizzie also mentioned going upstairs once with a pile of laundry. I have had an image of the hatchet being in that pile as she stealthily came into the room. I ascribe to the theory that Lizzie went over to close the front shutter (as was mentioned in a witness statement by I think Mrs. Bowen who noticed it from the outside) , Abby had her back turned, and Lizzie then came up behind her. When sensing the presence of motion behind her, Abby wheeled around and exposed the left side of her head for that first stunning blow.
When we were doing the re-creations Monday for the program, the rush of air and sound a hatchet makes whizzing past the ear is horrifically scary. After about 100 or more blows , I was actually beginning to feel a little trembly myself. I think if the wooden block had been used as was done for Ed (Andrew) , the sound would have gotten to me pretty quick.

I've been picturing it as the flap wound, Abby turning in panic, the wound in the upper back which brings Abby down, and then the head wounds.

We might even choose to think that Victoria Lincoln had it right when she theorized that Lizzie came up with the laundry just after nine (as she claimed at one point), hiding the hatchet with it. It would certainly keep the sight of a weapon from alarming Abby.

Yes, I agree, the slice between the shoulder blades at the nape area could have been the turn to escape when the second blow was falling. The first must have been the blow over the left ear.

Shelley, you must have nerves of steel. There's no way I could have done that.

Shelley, You must have pretty steady nerves, because you figure after about 100 blows, Lee Ann would have been tired and thank God she didn't actually hit you by accident. Was it a prop hatchet or the real thing?

It was a real hatchet- and several times I checked to make sure the wooden handle was securely in the eye of the steel head. It was also a vintage hatchet. The sound and the little breeze rushing by at every stroke are unforgettable. we did numerous takes and I was counting on LeeAnn's steady hand- sometimes she two-handed it, which I believe is exactly how it was done. For 14 years when I was younger and thinner I was the killer wielding the hatchet, and being the victim lying helplessly while that thing was whirling around my head was sure DIFFERENT. My daughter, with whom I have worked on other similar programs and who I wanted to play the part, refused this one, saying she just could not come after her mother in that way. I think I was GLAD about that part!

I totally understand why your daughter didn't want to do it. I couldn't even joke around with something like that with someone that I loved & cared about.

I think I have always had trouble believing that the first blow to Abby was when Abby was looking at the person. I would have thought she would have tried to shield herself with her hands or something. But, not having been there, I'll never know exactly what was going on or what Abby was thinking.

Her last few minutes here on earth, were with out a doubt, terrifying beyond anything any of us will ever know. The only good thing, was, it didn't last long for her.

Within a week, I'll be posting the new Lizzie Mini, "Secret Sorrow: The Death of Abby Borden"

The History Channel hasn't been the only filmmakers busy in the Guest Room!!!!

Can't wait. I'm assuming this is Shelley in the title role.

Oh that's great! Can't wait!! Poor Shelley should be having nightmares!!

Or one colossal headache.

Actually, having to spend so much time lying on my face Monday did produce quite a headache. I also learned I am not as suple and flexible as I used to be. The falling down part I have learned to accomplish with some grace and minimum knee bruising. I would not want to do it everyday.

Perhaps the wound on the shoulder was the first blow. Abby would have turned to see what happened -- a natural reaction I would think. And then, the 'flap wound' is delivered and it's lights out.

Shelley, I can imagine having to fall & lie there for so long would produce one heck of a headache. I have to say I'm glad you're still in one piece. Richard----I can't wait to see your new film. I'm sure it will be excellent.

I lean toward the "flap" wound being administered first while the killer and Abby were facing each other then Abby spun around to get away and fell face down, where she was cut up and died. I also believe Abby knew the killer since there were no defense wounds on her hands, arms or chest area. Who ever the killer was, the hatchet could have been hidden underneath a pile of towels or linen and pulled out and used before Abby could react.


-1bigsteve (o:

For your consideration, Dr. Dolan's opinion - testimony at the Preliminary Hearing:
Page 144
Q. Now you tell us of a glancing scalp wound on the left side of the head over the left ear?
A. Yes Sir.
Q. You think that wound might have been given under what circumstances?
A. While standing up, and facing.
Q. That was not necessarily fatal?
A. No Sir.
Q. What were the dimensions of that wound?
A. I think one and a half by two inches.
Q. An inch and a half wide, and two inches running from front to back?
A. Yes Sir.
Q. Did it cut the flesh entirely off?
A. No Sir.
Q. If there was any supporting hinge, where was that?
A. At the rear.
Q. Exactly in the back, or toward the bottom?
A. More towards the bottom; I think it was about medium. I would not say positively whether it was towards the bottom or above; I think about the middle.
Q. Was this hinge practically the entire width of the wound?
A. Yes Sir.
Q. So the flesh would fly back, like that?
A. Yes Sir, a flapping wound.
Page 145
Q. Now you are describing, in answer to my question, the wounds that she might have received when standing up; is there any other wound that you think of?
A. I do not think so, sir.
Q. In your opinion were all the other wounds given when the person was lying down, prone on the floor? Could they be?
A. Yes Sir, they could be.
Q. In your opinion, from what you saw, were they so given?
A. Yes Sir.