Lizzie Borden Society Forum

I was reading another post and it got me to thinking. You know how she said she was in the barn one time then out eating pears another time and then in the kitchen ironing. Well, maybe she was doing all those things that day, but the police took as she couldn't really tell them where she was.That maybe she was covering up because she did kill her parents, and she didn't have anyone to back her up as to where she was. So maybe the police took it as she was lying, noone could check her alibi out because noone saw her(although that doesn't mean she didn't do all the things she said she did, she just have anyone to corobate where she was and doing).

Say again?

The thing is, snokkums, exactly this: Consider for one thing the loft as it's described in statements and testimonies. If Lizzie was up there at all, she's surely going to leave visual evidence of her presence, right? Unless she was an angel, there'd surely be tracks on the barn floor in all that mess. Wouldn't there?

And another thing: Lizzie's stories about were she was at what time changed every time she told them. At different times, somtimes within minutes, she changes her stories back and forth between being upstairs and downstairs.

People say she was lying because not all of her stories can possibly be true. They contradict each other. If one is true, the other is false.

Some of what she said may be true, but not everything she said can be true.

doug65oh @ Mon Jun 30, 2008 1:05 pm wrote:The thing is, snokkums, exactly this: Consider for one thing the loft as it's described in statements and testimonies. If Lizzie was up there at all, she's surely going to leave visual evidence of her presence, right? Unless she was an angel, there'd surely be tracks on the barn floor in all that mess. Wouldn't there?

Weren't there workmen in there a few days before who didn't leave any tracks either? My question is about the fishing sinkers. She really didn't find any piece of iron with a hole in it to "prove" or prove she had really been looking. It doesn't make sense that if she was guilty, she wouldn't have found something to prove an alibi.

Bob Gutowski @ Mon Jun 30, 2008 12:45 pm wrote:Say again?

I am just saying that she might been doing eveything she said she was doing. She just didn't have a witness to see her do all the things she said she was doing.

Lizzie's stories seem to put her as far away from the events as possible. She was in the barn loft, the most isolated, remote place from Andrew's murder she could think of. She couldn't very well use the barn as a location during Abby's murder because Bridget was outside washing windows. Instead, she used the kitchen as her location during that event. She tried to remove herself physically from the events and tried to put herself as far away as possible.

Much has been made of testimony concerning a lack of blood on Lizzie after the murders. No one noticed any dust or dirt on her from the barn loft, either.

Yooper @ Tue Jul 01, 2008 5:32 am wrote:... Much has been made of testimony concerning a lack of blood on Lizzie after the murders. No one noticed any dust or dirt on her from the barn loft, either.

My thoughts exactly, Jeff, and very well put, I might add.

twinsrwe @ Tue Jul 01, 2008 9:03 am wrote:

Yooper @ Tue Jul 01, 2008 5:32 am wrote:... Much has been made of testimony concerning a lack of blood on Lizzie after the murders. No one noticed any dust or dirt on her from the barn loft, either.

My thoughts exactly, Jeff, and very well put, I might add.

That's a good point! I know myself that if I go out to the garage, which is no less dusty and dirty than a barn loft would be (the garage is from the 1930's), I can poke around for a few minutes, in the heat, and be sweaty and dusty when I'm done. If I added to that having to climb a set of narrow, dirty stairs in a dress like Lizzie was wearing, I would expect to be not only sweaty but dusty and dirty as well.

One of the police officers testified that when he went up the stairs to the loft and looked at the floor, the dust was not disturbed. I think it's pretty obvious that Lizzie was no where near that loft on the morning the murders were committed.

If she was not in the loft, where was she? And why did she lie about where she was??

I think it would be difficult for anyone to explain how they could be completely oblivious to not one, but two violent murders occurring almost under their nose. Lizzie was not both deaf and blind. This presented a dilemma. The trouble was, people really wanted to believe her.

Yooper @ Tue Jul 01, 2008 10:53 pm wrote:I think it would be difficult for anyone to explain how they could be completely oblivious to not one, but two violent murders occurring almost under their nose. Lizzie was not both deaf and blind. This presented a dilemma. The trouble was, people really wanted to believe her.

I think that is a good point, how are you not know that a violent murder is going on in the house, espeiclally since you said you were in and out of the house. You didn't notice anyone in the house?

And what about the maid, Bridget? She didn't hear anything either?

Quote from Uozumi:

Weren't there workmen in there a few days before who didn't leave any tracks either? My question is about the fishing sinkers. She really didn't find any piece of iron with a hole in it to "prove" or prove she had really been looking. It doesn't make sense that if she was guilty, she wouldn't have found something to prove an alibi.

I don't know of the workmen you refer to? Do you have that info? I'm late to this topic, sorry.

Lizzie did say she found a "piece of a chip"-
Inquest
69(26)
Q. Did you bring any sinker back from the barn?
A. Nothing but a piece of a chip I picked up on the floor.

A piece of a chip of what- we may ask. And where is it, we may ask. I don't know the answer to that.

Yes, that piece of a chip goes on my "Show Me" list along with the cores of those pears she supposedly ate up in the loft! It is one of those details which makes one want to wring their hands at the policework (or lack thereof) and cry why, why, why did they not follow up on so many things?