Lizzie Borden Society Forum

Pick a character and if you like, tell why you would take them to lunch?

Kat, I guess we both had trouble sleeping. I really wanted to take Bridget to lunch but she wasn't one of the choices. Alice would be a good second,she had many insights about Lizzie and family that would have been interesting to know. On a 1 to 1 she would be more relaxed and open to conversation. I would have liked to hear her opinion of what actually transpired on Aug.3. Maybe I could slip a little something in her tea,and I don't mean prussic acid,that would have loosened her tongue.

I would like to take Emma Borden to lunch. It seems to me that Emma has always been the quite, reserved one, staying pretty much in the background, so to speak. I would like to try and see what makes her tick.

I have thought for a some time now that Emma had more of a influence in Lizzie's thoughts, feelings, and actions than what has been displayed on the surface. I also think she had a much stronger hand in regards to the discord within the family than Lizzie ever did.

Emma has always been more of a mystery to me than Lizzie.

It's a toss up between Mrs. Churchill and Dr. Bowen. I have a feeling Mrs. Churchill loved a good gossip, and it wouldn't surprise me if she had her eyes peeled out of her window a good deal, watching every little thing that went on. Dr. Bowen probably knew a great deal more than anyone ever found out. I would make it a martini lunch to loosen his tongue.

I'd choose Alice Russell. She, besides being a friend of the Borden sisters, had a front row seat those first few days after the murders. I think she knew a lot more than even what she eventually revealed.

But would she reveal more? She never did at least as far as available records show. But after a relaxing dinner who knows.

My choice would be Alice Russell. Being Lizzie's friend, she would most probably have a great deal of insider information that we were never party to.

Actually, I would like to give the whole cast of characters a good dose of Sodium Pentothal. Then maybe we’d get somewhere.

I chose Emma and she looks like a chicken salad sandwich person. Or a soup and salad person.

I would take Abby to lunch. Why ? because I feel she was unhappy there and it would give her a break to get away. Also to get away from the eyes and snide comments from Lizzie & Emma. I would also ask her why Andrew never stepped in to try to control the situation when the girls were younger.

Abby Borden was my choice. I would like to know what went on in that household over the years and I think she would be more forthcoming than Andrew with information.

I know Lizzie was not a choice on the list but she is who I would of wanted to take to lunch because she looks like she needed a friend to talk to.

Dr Bowen is who I choose.....like to pick his brain about the pathology of the case.

I chose Abby, and the condition would have to be that she talked! I would want to know what exactly were the dynamics in that household. She had to deal with Emma and Lizzie for many years, and I bet she had some good gossip to share if she would only share! I think she was unhappy and scared, so I would try to find out why?

I think maybe both Emma and Abby. Abby definately needed to get out of the house, have a life and friends of her own. Emma because I don't think people paid her any attention from anyone. Lizzie seemed to be more invovled with things.

I'd have picked Bridget, but Dr. Bowen would be second on the list. I'd love to hear his insight as to what was going on in the Borden household and what did he and Lizzie discuss the afternoon of Aug. 4th?

Yes, I'd choose Abbie or Emma, also~
Abbie to hear her side of everything- her perspective on the family would be invaluable. I would like to know, too, if she gossiped after all. It's hard to imagine her not chatting or complaining about the Bordens to someone who was sympathetic.

But Emma is my hobby, so I picked her to take to lunch. I've been to every place she lived, except for her time in Fairhaven after she left French Street. I think that place is no longer there?

Deciding what she would choose from the menu is an interesting take on the question, snokkums! I picture soup and club sandwich, with red jello with whipped cream on top for dessert.

I have no doubt in my mind that I would want to take Mrs. Churchill to lunch. She was the first one, other than Bridget, to spend any time with Lizzie right after the murder of Andrew. I have always felt that she saw or knew something that she never shared with anyone. Living next door to the Bordens, I am sure she also had some inside scoop on what life was like in that house before August 2, 1892. I do not mean to insinuate that Mrs. Churchill kept her nose in the Bordens' business. Mrs. Churchill lived so close and on the North side of the house, so she could not help but to hear or see some things. Mrs. Churchill would definitely be a great luch partner!

I chose Alice Russell for alot of the same reasons as you chose Mrs. Churchill Joe1956. She knew both Emma and Lizzie intimately for years. She also lived right next door to the Bordens in the Kelley house. She would be a wealth of knowledge and insight into the dynamics in the Borden household. Plus she spent the day of the murders and the next few days and nights after the murders in the Borden household and was privy to some actions and conversations between Emma, Lizzie and Uncle Morse that I would love to know about, I picture Alice ordering lobster bisque, a turkey club sandwich and and carrot cake for dessert.

I notice no one chose Andrew Borden or Caroline Kelly.

Mrs Kelly lived next door to the Bordens, just like mrs. Churchill did. However the Kelly's yard did not face the side door of the Borden house as Mrs Churchills yard did.

Since Mrs. Kelly had not lived next to the Bordens for as long as Mrs Churchill had, I get the impression that the Bordens were more friendly with Mrs Churchill, than with the Kellys. This might not be true though.

Andrew would probably take me up on the offer of lunch since I would be buying . I get the feeling that Andrew would not talk much about his family, so taking him to lunch would probably be a waste of time and money if it were information that I were seeking.

For Information I would pick Alice Russell as well. If it were just for an outing and to get to know someone, then I would pick Andrew. I would like to see what he was really like. Tightfisted Miser or misunderstood Thriftiness ?

I chose Alice Russell. She lived next door to the Bordens for a long time, and she exchanged visits with both of the 'girls'. She got to hear plenty. And I think she wouldn't mind repeating it. I forgot that she also spent a few days with the 'girls' right after the murders. Yes, yes, yes - Alice Russell.

I almost picked Mrs. Churchill, but I have an impression of her as a busy-body. I wonder if the Bordens' relationship with her was confined to a "Good morning", if they had to say it. I wonder if they made fun of her behind her back. When Andrew was rude to Dr. Bowen, fearing he would bill him for an uninvited visit, Abby responded that the Bowens were all the friends they had. (The Knowlton Papers, and a small article by me in the LBQ entitled "Dear? Abby".) The only thing I can think of between the Bordens and Mrs. Churchill was that Lizzie went to church with her (I think). I don't think the Bordens were on any terms with the Kellys because they were Irish and I've always had the impression that the Bordens may have been prejudiced. I don't know how many years the Kellys lived next to the Bordens, tho. Maybe it was that they were just fairly new neighbors.

I would also wonder with anything Mrs. Churchill would say over lunch. She may have seen more than she heard, and she may have filled in some Borden goings-on with a narrative of her own creation.

I think Alice Russell would order chicken noodle soup, a small side salad, and order a big sandwich to take home to her mother.

Ms. Churchill as long as she ordered vegetarian fare. She looks like a cake and tea lady. I would like to see inside her house, too. She seems like she wouldn't be nasty to anyone. I would like to ask her if the family next door seemed stuck in a rut, or possibly unhappy, and a tad weird at times.

Dr. Bown all the way! I just know he had something to do with it! What's with all the burning papers! Tell me, Dr!

Abbie would be my choice as well. I would like to find out what she is really like, and whether Victoria Lincoln's portrayal of her is at all close to the truth.

Dr. Bowen. I would like to know what he and Lizzie talked about and did before and after the murders. He knew a lot I feel.


-1bigsteve (o:

I would take Abby to lunch because I would be interested in seeing who she really was as an individual-if she really came across as being the "wicked stepmother" that Lizzie tried making her out to be...it would be nice to hear her side of the story on that.

I think she was a very lonely person in the Borden house. I think she knew the girls didn't like her and Andrew was to me a very stuffy person. She had no one to talk to, except maybe Bridget, but back then you didn't talk to the hired help except to tell them what to do.

David Anthony

Actually, maybe if I took the mysterious intruder to lunch I might discover something.

Yes, like how they turned invisible the entire time they were in the Borden house-that would be a great place to start!

I think it might be very informative. Even if I got stood up, it would tell me something!

I was roaming about among the old posts and I saw this thread. It's a fun one, but I agree it's weird that Bridget has been left off it. I'd take Bridget out to lunch, perhaps to Tripps restaurant in Second St. I'd let her have something besides the vile meals they seemed to have at No 92. Perhaps a roast beef with vegetables or salad. Then I'd get her to tell me everything!

Lizzie isn't on the list.

If I took Bridget to lunch I think I would take her to a pub and buy her a pint...and find out everything she knows.

I voted for Abby. I like her and I would like to take her out to a real nice lunch somewhere. In tales from day to day life she could likely shed much light on her ultimate demise. Did Lizzie REALLY hate her? Why? What about Emma? Were there any serious problems outside the home? Then we would trade mincemeat recipes and I would give her future Fall Riverite Emeril Lagasse's pie crust recipe from the future. However that works out.

irina wrote:Lizzie isn't on the list.

If I took Bridget to lunch I think I would take her to a pub and buy her a pint...and find out everything she knows.

LOL the pint and the pub!


I'd take Dr. Bowen...my intuition tells me he was up to his eyeballs in something with the Borden women, and I'd love to know what.

Apart from schmoozing them, you mean? What about patient confidentiality? Still, Bowen didn't mind showing the bodies off to all and sundry so perhaps he'd talk!
I love how hardly anyone voted for Andrew! Mr Cuddles would hardly be an entertaining lunch companion and you wouldn't get any information of value from him anyway, so I understand why not.

Bowen needed an understanding ear...one of my talents is to listen attentively but never ask intrusive questions...for whatever reason this causes people to tell me everything, including lots of stuff I wish I'd never heard!! I'd like to have a loooooooong lunch with Bowen...but NO alcohol 'cause then I'd tell HIM everything I know...

OOh, perhaps I could join you? Seriously though, debbie, is it your contention that Dr Bowen was called in to Lizzie over the years, (depression, hysteria?) and that gradually she confided in him about incest occurring? Wouldn't he have advised to go live elsewhere?

(I can't imagine Emma confiding in Bowen in the same way. For a start, Phoebe Bowen and Abby were good friends. That would put Emma off straight away!)

This is what I think, and the evidence to support it comes from reading multiple books on psychological profiling, from the murders themselves, from one neighbor's comment and from my professional experience – none of which meet any standard of proof.

I think the level of violence directed at Abby and Andrew shows intense rage, much more rage than being upset over an inheritance would engender. Abby's brain is oozing out the back of her head while the killer is still whacking away. There's no way this can be written off to inexperience of the killer, not knowing for sure whether she is dead yet. Nineteen whacks is overkill by about sixteen. Plus the killer appears to have left the bedroom door open which means she has the opportunity to appreciate the presence of her handiwork...to recharge for the Second Act.

Andrew's face is destroyed, and yes, this is handiest place to hit as he lies on the sofa. But killing him doesn't mean beating his face to the point he is no longer recognizable as human, much less as Andrew Borden. That's no mistake on the killer's part. That is the deliberate depersonalization of a supposedly beloved father. He's stripped of his indentity as Daddy when his face is nothing but bloody pulp. To do this to a parent takes rage beyond what a normal person can understand...beyond what most psychology professionals ever encounter.

This kind of rage doesn't just pop up over money. There's a lifetime of "something" behind it. The salient question is what that "something" is...I think Dr. Bowen had a very good idea of what was going on there, and Andrew knew that he knew.

The Borden murders fit to a T the profiling of a domestic homicide resulting from long-term abuse of some sort.

So Bowen is my man for soup, salad and a decadent dessert.

I think I'd love to take Lizzie out. I'd love to ask her, if you did it, why? Which one of them pissed you off the most?

She'd probably have choked on her tea cake and been extremely offended that you suggested that she could do such a thing!

Or stabbed you with her table knife.