Lizzie Borden Society Forum

Greetings all here!
I didnt see a specific intro thread, so here I will post first.
First how I came about this site.

A few months ago my wife watched the History channel monster quest on the Borden house. She asked me why on our last visit out east to my grand-uncles in Newport Rhode Island, that we had not made the short drive from there to see the Borden House in Fall River.

I looked up the bed and breakfast online, and saw a familiar last name- Durfee. I have been into my family genealogy for a while, and that name stood out to me. My mothers side has lived in Portsmouth, Rhode Island area since Pilgrim times. I immediatley looked on my family tree to try to find a relation. I didnt recall any "Fall River" relations, but I thought it was close enough for some relation.
As it turned out I had plenty of Durfees, starting in familiar Portsmouth and branching off to "Tiverton" or "Freetown"...as it turns out they both are pretty much.... - Fall River MA.
Then as I looked at my tree, I saw Bordens also! I had remembered that they were there, but had never made the connection to "the" Borden family name.
Mystery solved as to why my uncles house was so close, it wasnt coincidence, I'm a relavtive.
So far I have found three lines of 7th cousin to Lizzie. I'm sure I have more, possibly closer ones. I am trying to unthread the web of my Durfee and Borden relations in Fall River and Portsmouth, they intermarried alot.

Ive been hooked on Lizze ever since, and reading any of the books is like a family genealogy of familiar family last names like Jennings, Borden, Durfee, Brownell, Lawton and almost anyone in the area.

- Bill

Hi Bill, welcome to the forum and thanks for the introduction.

The Heritage Project category has a great deal of genealogy information on the Borden's and others involved in the case.

Again, welcome.

..error

Yes, welcome DOGEESESEEGOD:

Genealogy is always fun, especially if you can sprout into the branches, directly or indirectly, of prominent personalities, famous, infamous or otherwise.

Fall river was built by such people as Durfees and Bordens as you may well know, though MOST HAVE MOVED AWAY.

Today there exists about 5 Durfee families in Fall River. Neighboring Somerset may contain another 5 families. And the surrounding small towns of Westport, Swansea and even New Bedford total only an additional 3 Durfees (est.)

Once you move over to the state of R.I., Portsmouth has no Durfee families living there today and Newport may have one or two........you would know better.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


But in 1892 during the Borden Murders there were over 50 Durfees living in Fall River.

As for Bordens there were over 130 Bordens living in fall river, with 7 different men named Charles and 4 Andrews. As you well know Andrew was the name of Lizzie's father.

Of further interest, once you sharpen it some more, out of the 4 Andrews: one was Treasurer of a Mill, the other President of a bank, one a janitor and the other a laborer. Two rich, two poor.

On a monetary scale, most Durfees and Bordens living in fall river today, even though they may be seen as middle class, can be considered poor when compared to many who lived in 1892.

Hey, Bill!
Liz (as Allen Ludden used to call her) Montgomery was also a cousin of The Liz, so you may be related to her, too!

Hello Bill,

Welcome to the forum; you’ll love this place!!

What part of Washington State are you from?
I’m in Lynden; North of Bellingham and about 4 miles from the Canadian border.

Hi Bill,

I hope you enjoy the forum! I know you will learn much, as I have.

Hi!
3 lines is pretty good!

Our Terence used to say that just about anyone in the US with ancestors here from Britain can be found to be 7th cousins to the Lizzie Borden family, as he was, believe it or not. Why 7th gen., I'm not sure. Maybe that was the most prolific line.

I think there are several Durfee topics in Heritage Project, as Harry says.

What have you read about the case so far?
Are you going to plan a House stay? They have a Gathering planned in the Spring.

BTW: I was watching Iron Chef with Rachael Ray when I first read your Introduction!
Thanks for introducing yourself!

mbhenty @ Thu Dec 18, 2008 11:51 am wrote: Genealogy is always fun, especially if you can sprout into the branches, directly or indirectly, of prominent personalities, famous, infamous or otherwise.

Fall river was built by such people as Durfees and Bordens as you may well know, though MOST HAVE MOVED AWAY.
.

My mother's side came to America on the Mayflower, and many other ancestors to the newly founded Portsmouth Rhode Island. It has many prominent cousins and such. Even having the likes of President Ulysses Grant, and Laura Ingalls Wilder in the familly tree doesnt seem to get as much a reaction from people as being a Lizzie Borden relation. I confess, that of the family branches, the Borden/Durfee family has been the most fascinating to myself!

I can only assume the Fall River Borden families (and other family names involved) , must have got tired of the questioning, and endless association with the whole affair, and found places to live away from the whole thing.

Kat @ Fri Dec 19, 2008 2:20 am wrote:
Our Terence used to say that just about anyone in the US with ancestors here from Britain can be found to be 7th cousins to the Lizzie Borden family, as he was, believe it or not. Why 7th gen., I'm not sure. Maybe that was the most prolific line.

I think there are several Durfee topics in Heritage Project, as Harry says.

What have you read about the case so far?
Are you going to plan a House stay? :

I can answer the 7th cousin thing easily! The original Borden settler was Richard Borden in Portsmouth Rhode Island. Im not sure the date, sometime at the founding of Portsmouth, - early 1600's.

Richard Borden had 12 children. One of those- John Borden, is Lizzies line. If your relation to Lizzie is any child of the original Borden other than John, (I am of Mathew's line), and you are living in our time, you will be a 7th cousin. The further cousins- 8th and 9th, are too young to have a clue yet! The closer are dead.

In other words, all descendants from Richard Bordens 12 children,( other than Lizzies 5th great grandfather John Borden), will be of 7th cousin line. Because we are going back as far as the early 1600's , yes there are many 7th cousins to Lizzie.

If your line follows Lizzies down Richards son John Borden's line, you will be closer than 7th cousin, and I'm sure you knew your close relation already!

I'm not sure of how closely related I am to Lizzie, closer than 7th cousin to be sure, I am still just starting to research it all. I know multiple lines of relation change your "cousinship" to a person. Those"old families" just intermarried so much. It wasnt until my mothers family that they left the area, moving to Framingham MA, after about 400 years in Portsmouth/Fall River.
****************************

I have read:

Edward Radin. Lizzie Borden: The Untold Story

David Kent: Forty Whacks: New Evidence in the Life and Legend of Lizzie Borden

Any recomendations for a next must read?

***************
If I can, I would LOVE to stay at the Borden house!!!! Its on my list of must things to do! Hopefully on my next trip out east.

Ad @ Thu Dec 18, 2008 3:17 pm wrote:Hello Bill,

Welcome to the forum; you’ll love this place!!

What part of Washington State are you from?
I’m in Lynden; North of Bellingham and about 4 miles from the Canadian border.

I'm in Tacoma.
Ive been up towards your parts a few times on trips to Vancouver BC, and Skagit Valley.

We always push the Source Documents, of course, from the website
lizzieandrewborden.com

That is more fascinating reading than any author. With these,you can make up your own mind, rather than have an author do that- but I think there are a few who have a book they can reccommend that would be factual.

Are you a professional chef?

Hello, and welcome to the forum!

I'll recommend Robert Sullivan's book "Goodbye Lizzie Borden". It deals with the legal aspects of the case while providing the testimony in summary fashion, good to read after becoming familiar with the primary source documents.

The Geary graphic novel The Borden Tragedy is a good one. It has its faults but it's better than the movie.

Some people take the Masterton book Lizzie Didn't Do It somewhat literally as true, but there is inventive speculation in there too. I can't rate it- it's been too long. Maybe someone else can?

Oh Bill, BTW:
There is a book that was republished that the FRHS sells and it has genealogy of Durfees and Bordens called Fall River and Its Industries, Peck and Earl, 1877. Mine was $38 a couple of years ago.

As a compelling read, I like Victoria Lincoln's "A Private Disgrace."
Lincoln grew up near Maplecroft and remembers seeing LAB, and also remembers contemporary opinions of her family, Mr. Jennings, Dr. Bowen, Mr. Knowlton, and other prominent personages of The Tragedy.
I like her theory, too, as well as her insights into the city's socioeconomic particulars during the decades before and after the trial. Lincoln is opinionated, which she readily admits, but she is not sensationalistic.

Kat @ Sun Dec 21, 2008 3:09 am wrote: Are you a professional chef?

Yes, I am a professional chef. Its all I have ever done for a occupation. It has its ups and downs, like any job does I suppose. I am the Banquet Chef at a local restraunt here. This is a very busy time for me with x-mas parties. Actually my season has got cut short, since these snows and ice here now, all of my parties have cancelled! Not surprizing the roads in Tacoma have very steep hills and are very dangerous if they are slick. (I slid down backwards and sideways a few blocks on one in my car last night!!)

My profile photo is me in my chefs uniform ;)

Oh My!
That's scary! Please be careful!

Bummer you got parties cancelled- you'll get extra time with the family now, I suppose.

Yes I saw your profile picture- cool!