Lizzie Borden Society Forum

This TV program was on last night (Monday). Stealing Lincoln's body and all the times it was shown, looked at, moved, buried and dug up and reburied. I never knew of this. Did anyone see it? it was pretty interesting!

Sorry I missed this. I knew there was a plan in the mid 1870's by some unsavory characters in Illinois to exhume his body and hold it for ransom, but it was thwarted.

That was a very interesting program! The whole idea was to capitalize on public sentiment by stealing Lincoln's corpse and burying it in the Indiana Dunes, a two day journey away, until a ransom was paid! Assuming they could get him there undetected, what would they do if the ransom demand was refused? Kill him?

The one sign of intelligence shown by Einstein&Co. was to plan the theft on Election Day, when nearly everyone's attention was focused elsewhere.

What surprised me most I think was the condition of Lincoln’s body when it was last viewed in 1901: Nearly perfect owing to numerous embalmings, the face a deep shade of bronze, still bearing evidence of bruising from the gunshot wound. The "plot" was actually hilarious in a way. IF that feller was released from prison, how would they know exactly where the body was secreted?

File this one under "Odd - Slightly Chilling."

I was just looking for something on the 'net and discovered that John G. Nicolay (who, with John Hay served as a principle private secretary to Mr. Lincoln) died on 26 September 1901 - the same day that Lincoln's casket was opened for the very last time.

I think if Abraham Lincoln knew how much trouble his remains would cause, he would have insisted on cremation, with the ashes being scattered!

Could be, Yooper, could be. The great thing about the whole business I think is that Agent Tyrell saved everything, from the moment he got word of the plot from Lewis Swegles, the "chief body snatcher for Chicago"... What a bunch of rubes!!

Who was it that decided to cock his revolver while running through a graveyard at night? The gun went off unexpectedly. It happened when the Secret Service agents decided to apprehend the perpetrators, but I don't think it was one of the agents, there were others working with them. Whoever it was, I'll bet they were real proud of him! Right after that, a gunfight ensued pitting the good guys against the good guys while the grave robbers escaped! I think both sides left a bit to be desired!

I figured you guys would know about this!

But I also never knew Lincoln's body had been moved -what, like 10 times?

Yes I agree he would have been mortified to have caused such concern and absolute havoc at times!

Lincoln may have been more well-traveled in death than in life.

Aye, I don’t recall offhand just who it was cocked the pistol but I don’t think it was a Secret Service agent. It might have been one of the Springfield police, a Pinkerton feller or the like. The funny part (one of several amusing things) was the fact that none of the Secret Service fellers was wearing shoes, and all of them were armed – I thought for sure the feller with the pistol would shoot himself in the foot. In the end though, the idiot prize has to go to the would-be grave robbers. They’ve just escaped capture by the skin of their teeth and what do they do? ‘Let’s hotfoot it outta here and back to the bar!’ Odd as it sounds, I can understand why the crypt was opened and the coffin inspected so many times. It only takes one rumor, and sooner or later folks do start to wonder. The "Honor Guard" do at least deserve some credit; they performed their duties as best they could and kept Mr. Lincoln’s body safe all those many years. It was only their methods that were a bit unorthodox.

Strangely enough, I was reading a bit earlier tonight that while the coffin was moved some 17 times through the years - the tomb itself needed repairs, etc., it was only opened 5 times: December 21, 1865, September 19, 1871, October 9, 1874, April 14, 1887, and September 26, 1901.

I remember now, it was a Pinkerton rental unit who fired the starting gun. I wonder if they were forced to change their company logo to a black eye for a time as a result?

They never realized Swegles was a plant, so maybe they thought the bar in Chicago would be safe enough. They may have figured Swegles out when the agents knew enough to arrest them in the bar. As far as they knew, Swegles had gone for the wagon driver to help with the coffin, so when the shooting started, they probably thought it had to do with Swegles, not with them directly. Apparently they didn't do much homework as to difficulty of removal, old Abe was a stubborn cuss!

They wound up with a year in prison each, which likely indicates the actual harm done, or at least the legal interpretation of it at the time. Public sentiment is what made it a spectacular crime. The entire tomb was rebuilt in 1901, due to the haste in the original construction and the overall weight, the foundation was not sufficient. Now Lincoln rests beneath ten feet of concrete. At least that's what they tell us!

That program is on again tonight at 8 pm on The History Channel.

Aye, I saw the rebroadcast just a bit ago - even better the second time around!

I just found the neatest thing - did a search of American Libraries at http://www.archive.org/index.php for the name John Carroll Power and turned up a volume titled History of an attempt to steal the body of Abraham Lincoln, published in 1890.

I was just trying to think of what they might have done to deter thieves at the time. Maybe a dozen identical lead-lined coffins, each with its own identical sarcophagus, eleven of them empty or containing a booby prize of some sort. Sort of a macabre shell game! Maybe a lifesize Lincoln doll in the eleven gomers....

What a great show! That would be good to have on DVD - there's so much information packed in it, at least I could watch it many times.

After his first burial, how many times was his casket actually opened and viewed? Was it just the one time, by the crew that buried him the final time?

I could swear I had heard before that Lincoln was embalmed more than the two times they mentioned in the show.

Very weird find, Doug, about the date of Nicolay's death.

The coffin was opened 5 times between 1865 & 1901, augusta: December 21, 1865, September 19, 1871, October 9, 1874, April 14, 1887, and September 26, 1901.

I thought you meant the tomb was opened five times in your prior post. Thanks for your patience.

Thanks also for the link on the book. I'll go there.

Oh, I see what you mean. No... The tomb itself in those days was open to the public. The casket was housed in a sarcophagus within the tomb, above ground. It wasn't permanently interred (under ten feet of concrete) until September, 1901.

Thanks for the link to the book! Cool!

The show was on again about 5 pm, but I got interrupted in a big way to cook dinner.

I wanted to re-check something I heard on it the other nite but never got that far yesterday.

Who were they talking about when they said this was the first time a group was called "The Secret Service"? Were those the two snitches in the body-stealing caper? So what were Lincoln's bodyguards called if there was nothing called 'The Secret Service'? When did The Secret Service start being used as the group name of the President's bodyguards?


I downloaded the book Doug recommended. I also bookmarked the site. He finds the greatest stuff on the web.

Here's a link to a timeline history of the Secret service.

http://www.secretservice.gov/history.shtml

It wasn't suggested that the Secret Service act as a full time bodyguard for the President until after the McKinley assassination. They were originally formed as a foil to counterfeiting. Lincoln was the first President to be assassinated, so maybe there was no need perceived for a Presidential bodyguard before 1865.

The folks they were referring to (as the Secret Service) are the very same as the modern outfit. They were - and still are - part of the Treasury Department, which is why and how they got mixed up with the plot to steal Lincoln's body. The plot was uncovered while Agent Tyrell and the others were hunting counterfeiters in Illinois. Lewis Swegles was the informant, the feller in the bar who claimed to be the "head body snatcher" or whatever it was he said after overhearing that conversation about stealing the body. Swegles apparently hotfooted it over to the local office, told what he knew to Secret Service Agent Patrick Tyrell, and things went from there.

A timeline of Secret Service history can be found at http://www.ustreas.gov/usss/history.shtml.

In Lincoln's day as you may recall, protecting the president was entirely different. What little protection he got came for the most part from the Washington, DC police. W.H. Crook, for example - the bodyguard to whom Mr. Lincoln said "goodbye" rather than his customary "goodnight" the 14th of April 1865, was actually a Washington policeman. He'd been assigned to duty at the White House on Thursday, January 5, 1865.

*If you hunt at http://www.archive.org/index.php they also have a book called Memories of the White House: The Home Life of Our Presidents from Lincoln to Roosevelt, written by Crook ca. 1911.

Crook's relief man - John Parker I think his name was - who did go to the theater the 14th of April 1865 - was also a DC policeman.

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Oh wow…W. H. Crook’s memoirs are fascinating, partly because it seesm that on his first duty night he came very close to a “presidential protector” in the sense we think of it today. The White House doorkeeper Tom Pendel coordinated, apparently. (The story begins on page 5 of the memoir.)

There’s a neat little piece at http://www.whitehousehistory.org/05/sub ... rs_10.html that provides a small idea of White House Security in the days after Lincoln was murdered but before the Secret Service took over. For what it was, it doesn’t appear to be “careless” at all.

Thanks for the links, guys. I'll use them.

There's actually another book by Mr. Lincoln's bodyguard Crook. The title of that one is Through Five Administrations: reminiscences of Colonel William H. Crook, body-guard to President Lincoln. It, too, can be found at http://www.archive.org/index.php by hunting for that title.

Colonel Crook was apparently employed at the White House in one or another capacity for just over 50 years, up until 1915. His anniversary date was January 5 of that year. He passed away in March and is buried in Arlington National Cemetery, apparently.

Thanks, Doug. It sounds good.

You're welcome, augusta. Both books are good, actually.