Lizzie Borden Society Forum

I think there are enough incidents about Abby to put that opinion to rest.
Here's another one I ran across in the Knowlton papers.

The prosecution conducted what was called an insanity survey (Hk102, page 102) of the Borden's and Morse's asking people who knew them their opinion regarding any insanity in the families. One of those asked was a Rescom Case who lived at 199 Second St. Part of his reply has this:

"... the woman that was murdered use to visit my house often, but she use to keep her affairs to herself pretty well, but I assure you I have my opinion of Lizzie Borden and I hope they will get more evidence. ..."

I think Abby was just miserable in that house and didn't have anyone friends or family to talk to.

To paraphrase Lizzie, "I suppose it would depend on your definition of 'recluse.'"
Surely, she made calls around the neighborhood, went to market (for food items) occasionally, and shopped for household goods, the latter within her limited budget, which even she-- the otherwise stoic and taciturn Abby-- complained about. That is, that she had to replace worn household items out of her weekly $4 allowance, while Emma and Lizzie were free to spend theirs on personal items.
I think this is as good a place as any to point out, too, that Emma did not protest this situation. However much a cipher Emma was, however much she wore her mantle of propriety when Lizzie was rockin' it out at Maplecroft, Miss Emma Borden did not protest the slights and injustices dealt Abby. Of course, Emma apparently didn't bad-mouth Abby in public to the wild extent that Lizzie did, because Emma evidently was wrapped up in public perception, as a route to being acceptable and accepted, a concept that Lizzie failed to grasp.
So, I picture Abby getting out within a highly limited realm of perhaps ten to fifteen blocks, particularly after the horse was sold. I wonder how often she received people in the front parlor, though-- whether others felt comfortable calling upon her, for whatever reasons. I suspect she was lonely at home, dusting the parlor to a fare-thee-well for "drop by" guests who never appeared.
In a sense, Abby was restricted in the same manner Lizzie and Emma were. That is to say, Abby wasn't hostessing tea parties, socials, and other gatherings on Second Street. That wasn't Andrew's "thing."
The evidence does indicate that Abby called upon neighbors-- surely, she had to get away sometimes. She probably didn't stay long, however--especially in later years-- with worries of what Lizzie might be stirring up at home in her absence.
On a related note, I think Lizzie staged the daylight robbery not for personal gain, but to intimidate Abby, for these reasons. (1) To make her feel uncomfortable going off any distance, by herself, with Andrew, even though the girls refused to vacation en famille after the property dispute. (2) To pretty much make Abby feel uncomfortable leaving the house, period.
Yes, Lizzie couldn't very well get away with another big robbery-- and, surprise, there was none-- although she could certainly have done things around the house that would have driven Abby bonkers, in Abby's absence.

There is also the thought that the break-in of 1891 was a "dry run" for the main event later. It would show that getting into the house unseen in broad daylight had been accomplished before by persons unseen-and so could be done again with more horrific consequences.

DJ- I was picturing dear Abbie riding that horse you mentioned. THat was a strange sight- I did chuckle at that.

I think it's possible Abbie enjoyed the farm in Swansea, and there may have been neighbors there she visited with. Apparently they took a woman with them, like the Mrs. Vinnicum. That might have been nice for her in companionship.

Kat! I meant for the buggy/carriage!!!
My maternal grandmother, who was the eleventh child of a large brood (her father was fifteen years old at the end of the Civil War-- that's just my great-grandfather) used to speak frequently of her Mother, who was married during the early 1880s, that she had her own buggy and horse, and that she used to like to ride around in it (up into her sixties) and call on neighbors who were not within walking distance. And, believe me, my great-grandparents were nowhere near as wealthy as the Bordens. In fact, they were rather simple, country people, and my great-grandmother was an extremely reserved Scottish lady, born a Campbell.
Now, almost everyone of any means in the Bordens' day owned at least one horse and one carriage, which is why Uncle John did so well in the horse trade. Well, I don't mean to sound didactic, but I think it's very important to realize what a huge come-down the selling of the horse and carriage must have been to Lizzie in particular, as well as to Abby (most probably), who suffered in silence. We know Lizzie loved animals, and she probably considered the horse a pet.
Now, Abby would not be able to get to Swansea unless someone offered her a ride, or unless a team was rented, as Uncle John did the day before the murders.
Same goes for Lizzie.
It was like someone with at least a million dollars today not having a car. Yes, you can still get around by bus and taxi, but it's not always convenient and can be expensive, depending on one's destination.
Again, to Swansea-- I don't think Lizzie liked for Abby to go out there, which-- as I stated in the above post-- may have been the driving force behind the robbery, to send the message to Abby: "Look what happens when you go off to Swansea (or leave the house for any length of time)."
Lizzie seemed to be sending an unspoken threat. I think Lizzie didn't want Abby to have any pleasant times, either.
At the same time, Shelley, I think Lizzie may have been testing the waters with Andrew-- "How far can I push his good graces? How much does he love me? What if I killed Abby? Would he cover for me?"
I don't doubt that some of those questions weren't circulating in her mind.
Also, as you say, Lizzie may have been setting up a scenario for the police of "See, our house was robbed that summer. Is it so strange that now there have been murders?"
Anyway, the gratifications of committing the robbery, for Lizzie, would have been multifold.

My old Victorian granny could hitch up a horse and drive herself- many women had to. Yes, it's like that old song "Daddy took the T-Bird away"-I am sure Lizzie rankled at having to hoof it or take public transport around the city when her Hill friends had their own carriages to make calls in-and probably had a driver to boot. Ah well, Lizzie finally got hers when she hit Maplecroft-and always led with the latest in transportation first! One reason Lizzie probably loathed Second Street- her father had all his little empire right at hand and was not much inconvenienced by no horse-it was just too bad the other members of the family could not be satisfied with such a limited horizon.

I'd like to add that Abby's social life (as any wife's of the era would have been) would have been restricted by her obligations to Andrew (that is, his expectations of her), the service of his meals at set hours, and whatever business he happened to be conducting in or out of the house. Because he didn't work regular hours, she was probably tied down to the house a good deal more than other wives would have been.
If she went out calling, it would have been at times convenient to his schedule, whatever that happened to be on a particular day. He probably expected her to stay close to home, and he was probably flustered on the morning of the Fourth, not only because he couldn't enter the house with his usual ease, but also because Abby was supposedly-- and unexpectedly-- in absentia.
He probably stayed downstairs so that he would be aware the moment she returned. What did she mean going out that morning, without telling him? Why didn't she wait until that afternoon, or at least until he was home?
Anyway, as tensions brewed in the household during Abby's last years, and particularly after the robbery, I don't doubt that some of her social practices would have been altered.

You know, that farm at Swansea was a duplex and it's possible the Almys stayed there in the summer at the same times as well. It's also possible they socialized with the Almys as Mr. Almy had been Andrew's business partner.

Why would Lizzie want Abbie at Second Street in the summer? She herself stayed in town sometimes so maybe Lizzie liked it when the folks went to Swansea?

I think it is possible Lizzie would have not wanted Abbie at Second Street or the farm, but a break away from each other might have been longed for.

There also might have been a train to Swansea. I'm not sure. Maybe MB knows?

One of my points (and I do have some!) is that I believe Abby grew less social as the years drifted by and her relationships with her stepdaughters spiraled downward, out of control. Of course, in earlier years, the family vacationed together at Swansea, but then the daughters stopped even taking meals with their parents, much less vacationing with them.
I think Lizzie liked to have Andrew in sight, certainly not away for long periods. After all, he was the key to her fortune. If he were off with Abby, perhaps secretly effecting another property transfer (in Lizzie's worried mind), Lizzie would have been pacing the floors. Abby wasn't venturing off without Andrew for extended periods of time, either, so Lizzie had to endure her unhealthy relationship with Abby in order to maintain watch over her Father.
The ultimate case in point is her coming back home when all her friends were in Marion, and wanted her there. You would think she would have jumped at the chance to be away from Abby. However, that meant she would have been unable to keep a steady eye on her Father's bidness.
If Andrew had bankrolled another Grand Tour, no doubt Lizzie would have succumbed. How bad must things have been for him to want Lizzie to get away at that cost?
Of course, Emma served as Lizzie's "I, Spy" in the interim.
Around the time of the murders, Lizzie's "I, Spy" was on vaction herownself. I don't think Lizzie liked for both of them to be absent from Second Street at the same time for any length of time, with neither able to keep an ear open to Andrew's business.

You know, I always felt Abby married Andrew out of a neccesity. She was a bit of spinster herself. But I think she was very miserable. Don't think Andrew really loved her. I think he married her so he could have a sitter for his kids.

Harry, good find on Abby visiting Mr. Case's home often. I'd never heard it before. Was there a Mrs. Case she could have been visiting? What did he do for a living? I am wondering if there was a reason why she went to his house a lot, like if she was purchasing something from him, or if the visits were purely social.

Frank Spiering did a good job convincing us that Abby was almost agoraphobic (had a fear of leaving her home) and that she was friendless.

Once in a while we'll find something like Harry did here. It's very interesting, because it is one more piece to Abby's persona - and I think she has probably been wronged for so many years about the kind of person she might have been.

Today we know she did marketing almost daily. Mrs. Dr. Bowen was a good friend of hers. She talked back to Andrew (see "Dear? Abby" by Sherry Chapman in a previous LBQ).

She took a female companion with her to Swansea because Andrew travelled back into Fall River so often when they were staying at the farm, she was for some reason uncomfortable being there alone (lonely? afraid?).

I don't think we have any proof to say that their marriage was loveless. It would be easy to say about a whole lot of couples I know.

snokkums @ Sat Mar 07, 2009 12:37 pm wrote:You know, I always felt Abby married Andrew out of a neccesity. She was a bit of spinster herself. But I think she was very miserable. Don't think Andrew really loved her. I think he married her so he could have a sitter for his kids.

Abby may have been miserable in the company of the girls as time went on, but as far as being miserable in general, I doubt she was any more miserable than any other woman of that era. Women were expected to get married and keep house and raise a family. The fact that Abby didn't have children cannot be a commentary on the state of their marriage..many couples have fertility problems.

As far as Andrew loving her, I believe he most likely did love her, perhaps very much. Just because a man is a tightwad does not mean he does not love his wife and/or family.

Shelley @ Wed Mar 04, 2009 7:29 pm wrote:There is also the thought that the break-in of 1891 was a "dry run" for the main event later. It would show that getting into the house unseen in broad daylight had been accomplished before by persons unseen-and so could be done again with more horrific consequences.

I have felt for years that Lizzie had been performing a "dry run" leading up to the murders. First with the day time break-in, proving that someone could enter the house in broad daylight unseen. Secondly, the dress. Lizzie could have brushed it up against the wet paint on purpose with the intention of using it later or accidently stained it and then decided to hang onto it for later use as a protective cover. Either way she could later burn it claiming it was just covered in "paint." Thirdly, the absence of a murder weapon indicates to me that Lizzie had that problem worked out in advance too. My guess is that Lizzie had it hidden under or in her bed mattress, the last place the police would check especially with Lizzie laying on it.
___

Maybe Abby was uncomfortable about her weight and felt more at ease at home. She could have used the "there is so much house work to do" excuse to justify staying at home. On the other hand she might have been trying to prove her worth by doing so much around the house., trying to earn Emma and Lizzie's respect?

-1bigsteve (o: