Lizzie Borden Society Forum

Although we were all too tired to recreate Uncle John's walk to Weybosset St, I did have some time to take photos of the light levels at various times we have discussed here on the forum. This first shot is 9:30pm on August 3rd- when Lizzie came in the front door. I was stunned to see that she could not see anything in that sitting room!

Abby in the guest room north window at 9:25 am August 4th

Guestroom at 10
Guestroom view to Hall- Abby's view at 9:22

Lizzie's room around 11am

Lizzie descending front staircase around 9:30 a.m.

Bridget, guestroom 10:30

Bridget front door 10:55am

Lizzie's room early afternoon

That guest room-to the hall picture that would have been Abby's view really creeped me out for a second!
These are great! Thanks Shelly!

I should have the slide shows up by midnight. Yes, that stairwell window lets in loads of light. It was NOT a stealthy, dark, creepy murder approach- broad daylight makes it even scarier to my mind. This August 4th was hot, sunny and a little humid, nearly 90 degrees.
This was the sitting room about 10:30 done for the newspaper before we got started at 11. The sun pours in those south windows. of course they now have no shutters as they would have in 1892.

Shelley, thank you for posting these terrific photos! Great for those of us who couldn't experience the re-enactment and the house firsthand

The blood spatter on the bedspread really gave me a chill...

I have some funny photos in the upcoming slideshow of us making the props, including the bedspread-getting the right color for the blood was NOT easy. We tried paints of all shades, and finally sent Joe to the store for food coloring! I should have the slideshow up in about 15 minutes.

That "blood" stain on the white sheet looks a bit like a hippopotamus! Many thanks to Shelley and all those involved in the photos. They take the events out of the abstract and make them seem more real.

Okay- we are at this link http://pearessentialproductions.wordpress.com/

Another one of Lizzie (Lorraine) coming at 12:45

Thank you for this ! I am impressed. It's like being there. I only had my imagination to go by before, but you have put the icing on the johnny cake !

Thanks- that makes it all worth it. My aim has been bringing the house to everyone for the past few years. I have more photos of the neighborhood and the house in August. I am always intrigued by just how bright things are in the house and on Second Street in August. Of course Mrs. Churchill's home would have made the north side much darker as would the big tree in front of the Borden house. and the shutters inside- but still, on a sunny day, a killer would be lucky to try to sneak out in that broad sunlight if he/she had any blood upon their person. Maybe nobody tried to sneak out- maybe someone did not have to. . . .
Tomorrow I want to try to get some shots in the back yard-minus those handy pear trees, and from Chagnon's view and Crowe's yard.

Shelley @ Fri Aug 07, 2009 10:54 pm wrote:This first shot is 9:30pm on August 3rd- when Lizzie came in the front door. I was stunned to see that she could not see anything in that sitting room!

--partial

Hi!
Cool idea to check these things! Thanks!

We are in Daylight Savings Time now, so doesn't that mean the light should be checked at our 8:20 pm, rather than our 9:20 pm?

I did ask my sister this question when she called me last weekend, not knowing you were thinking to check the light!- it was just 8:30 and she did say it was dark there. Here in Florida, of course, it was not- merely medium twilight.

I wondered at Lizzie returning home at dark after she already thought there had been a prowler.

We actually thought about Daylight's Savings too- and even at 8:30 it was very dark. Of course she might have heard them talking and known they were in there. We went in the cellar at about the times Lizzie made her two trips- and yes- it WAS dark down there. I was surprised since it was summer. But it's true- she would have needed that lamp.

Who is the cute tall guy holding the "bloody" sheet? He looks just like my mom's brother, Uncle Matt, when he was that age!

Oh that's Cemetery Jeff! He is Andrew on the sofa every year. Jeff has the height and those long legs to dangle over the sofa. Next year, however, I believe Jeff wants to say a few words so a new Andrew must be found. I have said enough words over the years, so I will be happy to just be Abby upstairs again.

Does "every year" mean last year and this year?
Or has Jeff been around longer and it's a case of "my how time flies" in my mind?

Shelley (or anyone else), I am very naive when it comes to fabric of those times. All of your lovely costumes were such pretty pastels with a variety of designs in the cloth. Were the fabrics back in the 1890's like that too? Whenever I see pictures of my great grandmother, etc. everything looks dark and drab and stiff.

We are wearing either cotton twill or calicos. Fall River was famous for printed cotton calicos which came in all colors, pastels, prints,stripes. etc. The dark and drab from those early photos sometimes comes from the type of photography and techniques at the time. People look stiff, sometimes unhappy because they have to stay very still and naturally without color in those sepia and B/w shots everybody has a muddy monotone.

Men's clothing tended to be pretty dark and neutral although there are some magnificent examples of colorful fancy waistcoats, cravats and smoking jackets of the period. Traveling clothing was dark for women because of the train or steamship soot and general dirtiness of public travel. Mourning customs were strictly observed so sometimes women in old photos are draped in First or Second mourning which could be worn for a year or more if a widow. Young children were in white usually for mourning.

Sometimes you see a hand-tinted photo which is bright and vibrant. But bright colors for ladies and children were sure around. I open the collection room at the university and sigh over stuff from the 1880-1890 period. There is one electric blue velvet suit with a big bustle from the final stiff bustle period that is an eyepopper! There were rich colors too like copper, forest green, crimson, ochre, vermilion. The Mark Twain house had a big selection of Samuel Clements' wife 's clothing and it was amazing, thick with embroidery of flowers, trims, beading- luscious stuff. Cotton calico was cool and absorbant for Fall River in August and on the street, topped with a nice straw boater hat, gloves and/or a sunshade parasol, you could go right to McWhirrs or Hudner's or Wade's! I bet the selection of fabrics in Fall River in 1890 was an Aladdin's Cave of riches.

Here are a few photos from the Twain House exhibit of Olivia Clement's to die for gowns- she kept him in the poor house with her clothing bills! I had to go see this exhibit 3 times! http://marktwainhouse.org/exhibitions/archive/modesty/

Here is a colored plate from the Delineator (put out by Butterick) in 1896 when the leg o' muttons were about as big as they would get.

"The Eton jacket looks chic over a vest or shirt-waist of silk, dimity, lawn or mull and is sufficiently dressy for afternoon wear at seaside resorts or for informal occasions when elaborate dress is not required. Russian crash, duck, grass linen, serge, mohair and flannel are popular materials from which it may be fashioned and the skirt will usually match the jacket. The vest is generally of silk, chiffon, lace or mull, or of printed sheer crepe, which at present is very fashionable in Persian and Dresden color schemes. "

These tinted plates are from the beginning of the leg o' mutton revival which started in 1890- the "muttons" are still small here and attractive-they would get ridiculously huge and floppy by 1896-7 before going away altogether. My favorite period of women's costume is 1873-1895. encompassing both bustle periods, the Polonaise, curaiss bodice, gored skirt and leg o' muttons. After the turn of the century that funny mono bosom S- curved body came into style and by 1912 the silly hobble skirt. 1912 did have those drop dead cartwheel hats though, which I love! It is said by those who should know, that Lizzie favored darker shades in her later years at Maplecroft, especially the 1920's time.

Wow! I lived in the wrong era. (Although I could do without the corsets, stays, fasteners, petticoats, etc.) I made a skirt for a Civil War reenactment and I thought I'd never stop sewing. Tons and tons of yardage.
However, wearing it was a delight. Men stopped to help me get across stones or high steps, whereas the women who were wearing jeans were ignored. I loved it. And without the extra tons of layers under the skirt it was quite airy.

I love those mutton sleeves...tho they make me look like a linebacker.

I love to sew and wear those fashions. 1890 is one of my favorite years, I love the long bodices and the smaller mutton sleeves. Or you can still wear a bustle if you want. By 1891 the bustle is out of fashion and the shoulder area starts to bustle out with those huge leg o' mutton sleeves.

And, of course, women of that era commonly had ribs removed to produce those minimal waists! ;)

At ths point of my life I would have to have ALL of my ribs removed.

Angel @ Fri Aug 28, 2009 11:58 am wrote:At ths point of my life I would have to have ALL of my ribs removed.

Me too!

Studying costume history, it seems that whenever skirts are plain, the POW- factor moves somewhere else. In 1890 the sleeves were becoming the big attraction and continued to do so thoughout the decade. When we had the soft bustle in 1873, the big deal was the skirt and the back draping and the sleeves and bodice were simple. My all time favorite though was the final rigid bustle period when the ladies could perch a small dog on their derriere-and oh those big bustles made the waist look so slim! And those draped skirts and bustles were bristling with passmenterie and tassels and fringe and doodads! They called it the Upholstered Era! Love it!

Yes, I have always found that gals tricked out in skirts, hats and gloves get the royal treatment. When I travel on trains and planes I make a point of making a big sartorial effort! Once a pilot left his cockpit to come see a 1912 hat I was wearing to a Titanic convention because I could not fit it into a suitcase, and I breezed through security without stopping. The man at the inspection kiosk said, "Lady, in that hat I KNOW you're not trying to smuggle anything!"

Just ordered this from Recollections for Lizzie's "mock trial" at New Bedford on Sept 24th. So many of our costumes come from this company they have a Lizzie gallery now at http://www.recollections.biz/Shelley.htm


Here's a ball gown for Lizzie!

I volunteered at a circa early 1860's Santa Fe Trail stagecoach stop here in KS. It was also a former residence - the family contracted with the stage line to feed the stage travelers and water their horses. They have a couple of dresses from the lady of the house on display and they are tiny. I could have never fit into them, but I have to say I favor the big hoop skirts, having worn them often enough there while reenacting.

Did women commonly have ribs removed? Which women would do that? Wasn't it dangerous in those times- any type of surgery? Maybe actresses? I'm very concerned and curious.

Actually, no- this is a bit of a legend propagated to shock people about the vanity of women. Naturally any respectable doctor would refuse cosmetic surgery of this kind. The lower, or floating rib could conceivably be removed without endangering the inside organs, and there are people (I know one) who had an extra rib which had to be removed. Did it ever happen? Sure- I bet some unscrupulous doctor for the right amount of cash may have performed such a procedure on a stage performer or budding starlet- but Victorian women got that wasp waist from tight (and I mean tight) corseting. I read recently the diary of a young girl (aged 10) whose mother began her regime of corseting early. The girl kept a diary and described the progression of corsets and gradual corsetting and tightening of the laces over time to keep the waist from "spreading". Bizarre! And very unhealthy. Those gals who passed out and had the vapors can thank tight corsets for some of those swoons.
Thank goodness for Lady Duff Gorden (Lucile), who was an amazing dress designer (also a Titanic passenger) who did away with corsets and boning and turned the tide for such things.

Anna Held shown above was a Ziegfeld Girl. Ziggy was no help in propagating that rib myth to get publicity about his girls. Anna was said to be one of th emost beautiful women in the world of her era.

The article link below also confirms the myth of the removed ribs. Valerie Steele is a fashion expert whom I trust and whose work I have studied in costume classes- a reputable source.
http://www.snopes.com/horrors/vanities/ribs.asp

Yeegads! Check out that hourglass figure!!!

Wasp waist for sure!

Thanks Shelley.That was germane and informative.
I'd known that had been done, but not common.

That lady looks like a "Pocket Venus."

I always remember the scene in Meet Me In St. Louis where Judy Garland is cinched into her gown so she could barely breathe. What a thing to do to a singer!

As Auntie Mame said, "If you can breathe it's not tight enough".

I'd have probably been one of those naturalist people...