Lizzie Borden Society Forum

until the end of Lizzie's trial? Emma did. Consider what Lizzie's attorney Robinson had to say in an interview after the trial:

"Has Miss Borden formulated any plans?

"I don't know that she has. Her present plans are, I think, to take an entire rest. She has gone to Fall River and will take up her residence in the old home. The house will be cleansed from the evidence of the crimes. The present condition, which is, of course, just as it was left on the morning of the murders, is far from pleasant, but Miss Borden considers that as her home, having spent 20 years of her life there."

There were newspaper reports that Emma and Uncle John thought about moving. This from the FR Globe, 8-16-1892:

"Emma Borden paid her regular visit to her sister, returning about 6 o'clock. Mr. Morse took a stroll about town, and certain statements made by him gave rise to a report that the Borden homestead was soon to be vacated by its present tenants. It was said that he went to a house on Winter street, but after examining it he decided not to hire it.
It is a fact that the Borden family cannot well bear the gaze of curious people who pass the house frequently, and in addition it is very trying to them to be confronted with the horrible evidences of the tragedies that must always cling around the old homestead."

I voted "no," based on an assumption of Lizzie's guilt.

Had she had absolutely nothing to do with killing her parents? Well, then, why not stay? Definitely remodel some, definitely put in a full bath in place of Emma's old bedroom and also in "Abby's room," off Mr. and Mrs. Borden's bedroom. Put in an extra bedroom on the third floor, plus a shared bath. Lizzie could afford some extra help. (A full-time cook for her entertaining, and a maid just to do housework.) Install gaslights!!!

Also, the house could have been expanded on the first floor, at the rear, for whatever purpose(s). A fuller kitchen? A new guest bedroom in the back, with its own sitting room? Etcetera and whatever.

Five grand alone (what Emma and Lizzie had recently made off the house sale back to their Father) would have had No. 92 stylin'. The locale wasn't the most fashionable in F.R., but awfully convenient to most everything, though.

If you live in an old-enough house, invariably people have died there. If you didn't facilitate those deaths, what's the problem?

DJ @ Tue Mar 23, 2010 3:07 pm wrote:If you live in an old-enough house, invariably people have died there. If you didn't facilitate those deaths, what's the problem?

That's true, but it's a little different in this case. When someone is living in an old house in which people have died in the past, they are not related to these people, likely never knew them and have no emotional ties to them. So the fact that people have died in the house does not have the same impact as having your own parents die (and murdered, for that matter) in your house.

No matter how much discord there had been between the girls and the parents in recent years, these were people they had grown up with (especially Lizzie) and Abby and Andrew had been in their lives for a long time. Emma probably at least had some affection for her father, even if they had not been getting along for some time. I'm surprised that she was able to stay there for so long after the murders. It could be argued that she remained there because of emotional ties to her father/Abby/the house, but if that was the case, why not keep the house when they moved?

I personally don't think that I would be able to remain in a house in which my parents were murdered.

My Dad died of cancer and when he was dying he wanted to die at home. Hospice was able to help us grant him that wish. He died in his own bed in his own bedroom. As much as I had very happy memories in the house I grew up in and I loved that house, I could no longer stay in that house. My sister and I sold the place. That was a death from cancer. I can't even imagine having my father and mother murdered in our home and then staying there. Yes, people die in homes all the time and we live in them, but family is very very different. I voted NO!

I voted no. If I had been there at the time of the murders, my associations with the place would almost certainly have been poisoned irrevocably.

Having only become acquainted with it long after the murders and having had no direct experience of them, I find the house quite charming. Its grisly history gives me only the sort of mild shivers that a good horror movie does, if that. I have stayed there several times and will very likely do so again!

I also voted "no". There would have been curiosity seekers during the time before the trial, just one more annoyance. If I believe my sibling to be innocent, it means I believe someone else guilty, someone the police were not pursuing. That means the possibility exists for a repeat of the crime with the occupants of the house as the target. If the time I spent in the house was unhappy, capped off with a double murder, I think I would have relocated.

I'd have moved in order to start anew. Part of me might want to go back to the house to visit out of curiosity, but a new big home like Maplecroft, and a bit of lifestyle pizzazz would help me forget the negativity behind me. I am trying to envision Lizzies daily life in her 60's. Did she have photos of her parents in Maplecroft ? I would love to know what set Emma off. It had to be pretty bad. Naked cavorting thespains ? That would get her a little wacky.



* thespians "thespains" hadn't been invented yet

I definitely couldn't have remained in the house, because to reiterate what Yooper posted, Emma seemed to feel Lizzie was innocent, so the murderer was still at large. Who's to say they wouldn't have payed another visit. And how would she have had any respite from the trauma, having to spend every waking day at the scene of the crime. I've always thought it odd that she was able to do so.

Chaucun a son gout--

I frequently stay in my grandparents' old house, and watch TV on the very spot where my grandfather died of a massive heart attack. I also sleep in my grandmother's bedroom, where she died.

I loved them dearly and always felt their home was a refuge, and still do.

Thus my point: IF Lizzie had had loving memories, she might have stayed.

Evidently, she didn't.

Folks: IF Lizzie had really wanted to get away from the murders, from whispers and prying eyes, she would have left Fall River.

Everyone knew she was up at Maplecroft and could venture up there to gawk, if they so desired.

I voted no myself and so far it's unanimous 15 to 0.

I can't imagine using the sitting room or the guest room with the blood on the walls, doors and wherever else it landed. I guess it had to stay that way until the trial jury made their tour through the house. That must have been a long 10 month wait.

Lizzie, once released, wasted little time getting out of it and up to French St. I believe it was only about 3 months. And some of that time was spent in Newport and at the Chicago Worlds Fair.

I voted no also...it just gives me the shivers to think about living in a place where any one has died violently- especially if it was someone that I knew.

DJ @ Wed Mar 24, 2010 1:49 pm wrote:I frequently stay in my grandparents' old house, and watch TV on the very spot where my grandfather died of a massive heart attack. I also sleep in my grandmother's bedroom, where she died.

But do you think you would have been able to do so if your grandparents had been violently murdered? (and I mean no offence at all here, I am just curious as to if you would be able to do the same.

I think the sheer fact that Abby and Andrew were murdered - and in such an awful way - was likely a major factor in influencing the girls' decision to leave. And that's assuming Lizzie is innocent. If she committed the murders, perhaps her desire to leave could also be influenced by possible feelings of guilt (although one would think that she might move away from the town altogether if she felt that guilty) and the fact that remaining in the house would likely mean that she would be forever haunted by what she had done. As it was, if guilty, it would have been something that always stayed with her, but had she remained in the house, the guilt/knowledge/memories of what she had done may well have smothered and traumatised her.

I also voted no. I can’t imagine staying in a house where my parents were brutally murdered. I think it would be like living your life in the past; never moving beyond that horrible day because the house would be a constant reminder.

Yep. Not many people would want to live in a crime scene.

Still unanimous, 16 to 0. The only reason I can come up with for Emma to remain in the house during the trial is to deter break-ins. At the same time, if aggressive intruders are feared, why remain in harm's way? I guess if it was common knowledge that the house was vacant, it might encourage looting. If the police wanted to preserve the condition of the crime scene, they would need to have personnel on the premises or in the house at all times.

Well, thank goodness someone didn't mind living in the house, or else it would probably have been razed, and would thus now be unavailable for tours, and for people to spend the night in the room where Abby was murdered.

I probably would have stayed. I mean, people don't mind paying money to stay in the house now.
I probably wouldn't want to stay in the quest room where Abby was killed, but probably up in the maids' room.

I would not have stayed in the house if I were Lizzie and I wanted people to believe I had nothing to do with the crime. I would have at least wanted to give the impression that I was horrified about the murders and I would have run out screaming upon discovery of my father and never returned. Maybe Emma was advised for some reason by attorneys or friends to stay there. She certainly had people she could have stayed with.