Lizzie Borden Society Forum

sociopath [(soh-see-uh-path, soh-shee-uh-path)]

Someone whose social behavior is extremely abnormal. Sociopaths are interested only in their personal needs and desires, without concern for the effects of their behavior on others.
1. GLIB and SUPERFICIAL CHARM -- the tendency to be smooth, engaging, charming, slick, and verbally facile. Sociopathic charm is not in the least shy, self-conscious, or afraid to say anything. A sociopath never gets tongue-tied. They have freed themselves from the social conventions about taking turns in talking, for example.

(Lizzie has been described as an excellent conversationalist.)

2. NEED FOR STIMULATION or PRONENESS TO BOREDOM -- an excessive need for novel, thrilling, and exciting stimulation; taking chances and doing things that are risky. Sociopaths often have low self-discipline in carrying tasks through to completion because they get bored easily. They fail to work at the same job for any length of time, for example, or to finish tasks that they consider dull or routine.

(lizzie dropping out of High School and quiting her piano lessons comes to mind as well as her reported kleptomania.)

3. LACK OF REMORSE OR GUILT -- a lack of feelings or concern for the losses, pain, and suffering of victims; a tendency to be unconcerned, dispassionate, coldhearted, and un empathic. This item is usually demonstrated by a disdain for one's victims.

4. SHALLOW AFFECT -- emotional poverty or a limited range or depth of feelings; interpersonal coldness in spite of signs of open gregariousness.

5. CALLOUSNESS and LACK OF EMPATHY -- a lack of feelings toward people in general; cold, contemptuous, inconsiderate, and tactless.



(Lizzie showed no emotion immediately after the discovery of the murders and during the days investigation by police and in fact showed some slight disdain and irritation when being questioned.)

6. PARASITIC LIFESTYLE -- an intentional, manipulative, selfish, and exploitative financial dependence on others as reflected in a lack of motivation, low self-discipline, and inability to begin or complete responsibilities.

(Sounds like life for Lizzie at 92 Second St.)


"She was extremely composed. She was unbelievably composed. I couldn't believe she was a family member. There were no tears...no disbelief...no, 'Why did this happen to me?'"

The above quote could be describing Lizzie's behavior to a T in the hours after the murders but instead are describing another murderess, Diane Downs, who shot her own children. http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/noto ... dex_1.html

Do you think Lizzie was a sociopath? She seems to fit the bill.

It's difficult and risky to place a modern diagnosis on a "retro" situation, although I certainly understand how it all seems to fit.

Shall we say Lizzie had sociopathic tendencies?

I agree, Steve, that I don't think she had any deep and meaningful relationships with others. Even she and Emma split, for whatever reasons.

Isn't it fitting that Lizzie loved the theatre so? Sort of a metaphor for her life-- somebody wanting to be somebody else (somebody more).

Don't think Lizzie was ever comfortable in her own skin. She wanted to be far more than she was-- she was a malcontent.

Don't think Lizzie ever truly learned, if you will, to love-- particularly to love unselfishly.

Anyway, I've known two true sociopaths far better than I ever should have, and believe thee me, they are a charming lot, as your definition states. That's their big lure. However, I don't think Lizzie ever worked up much charm. Surely, she play-acted at it when it suited her needs, but I see no indication that she was as charming as a true sociopath is.

It would be interesting to get a psychologist's take on her.

I've known two sociopaths in my life, too, and they were exceptionally charming. But Lizzie could play the part if she wanted to, I think. I think she did some play-acting in the courtroom during her trial.

I don't know if I would say that Lizzie was unemotional after her Father was killed. Depending on whose take you read of that morning, she seemed upset to some.

Personally, I think she did it (or had someone do it), and I think she knew about Abby being dead for a good hour and a half. She didn't freak out then that anyone knows of. I think she must have been very cold to have not reacted to it. Even tho some say she was upset after Andrew's death, she was still nothing like I would think someone would be. She didn't show her feelings in public, she said. Sure. Okay. But that was really extreme. "I want Winwards!" Sheesh.

I think she was a sociopath but had one or two other things wrong with her too.

SteveS. @ Fri May 14, 2010 7:56 pm wrote: . . .
Lizzie showed no emotion immediately after the discovery of the murders and during the days investigation by police and in fact showed some slight disdain and irritation when being questioned. . . .

I apologize to everyone who's heard me go on about this before -- I know I've posted this same information a lot over the years, but i guess I react like Pavlov's dog when this particular button is pushed -- so here it is again:

Charles Sawyer, who was one of the first on the scene, said Lizzie was "apparently grief-stricken" and that "when they came down and reported that her mother had been killed, she apparently went off in some kind of swoon or hysterical fit..."

Mrs. Churchill described her as "distressed" and Alice Russell found her "dazed". (source of quotes: Inquest Testimony)

I didn't know that Lizzie had any kind of reaction to the discovery of Abby's body. Thanks, Diana.

I have known several sociopaths, and one thing they hate is being told NO. Lizzie also swooned in the courtroom, so swooning, and showing some form of upset at Second Street should be the order of the day with enough people around. I used to wonder if she had read any murder mysteries, etc. during her life...before the murders.

There was an episode on Unsolved Mysteries that dealt with Sociopaths and phycopaths.

When they described the sociopath it was like they were describing my former friend from high school exactly. Up until that point I could not figure him out, he could be your friend one moment and then stab you in the back the next moment. He could also manipulate people to do what he wanted them to do. He could manipulate people against you.

Years had passed and in that one episode of Unsolved Mysteries everything was revealed and understood.

Some of the things mentioned in that episode that stood out the most to me were the sociopaths ability to seem like a real nice person and how they can make you feel good about yourself. A real smoothy.

They can also make it seem very beneficial for you to be friends with them.

They can also concoct elaborate "rationales" for their psychopathic/sociopathic behavior. The really scary part is when we almost buy into their "excuses" because we may "need" them in some way, and don't want to lose the perks, or get on their bad sides. Luckily, most of us can see through their insanity eventually.