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Different Spin on the Murders

Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 10:20 pm
by nbcatlover
I've always liked this article because it is so different in details from many other reports.
THE BORDEN MURDER

Portuguese Farm Employe Sus-
pected Assassin.

Daughter of Slain Couple First
Discovered the Bodies.

Threads of Evidence Picked Up by
the Police.

Mr. Borden See on the Street
Shortly Before Found Dead.

No Trace of the Implements Used in the
Commission of the Crime.

[By Associated Press.]
Fall River, Aug. 4-- Andrew J. Bor-
den and his wife were found at their
home, 92 Second street, at 11 o'clock this
forenoon, both dead. Both had been
frightfully mutilated about the head and
face with an axe, cleaver, or a razor. Mr.
Borden lay on a sofa in a room on the
lower floor of the house. His head had
been cut, and gashes from four to six
inches long were on his face and
neck. Mrs. Borden was in her own cham-
ber on the upper floor, and the condi-
tion of her face and head was the same as
that of her husband. She lay face down-
ward on the bed, which was a veritable
pool of blood. The police were immedi-
ately notified and began an investigation.
Up to the hour of writing no implements
that could have been used in the commis-
sion of the crime had been found. This
leads to the terrible suspicion that Mr. and
Mrs. Borden were murdered. The mur-
der and suicide theory is advanced and
finds many supporters. Mr. Borden was
a wealthy real estate owner and mill man,
and was seen on the street half an hour
before he was found dead.
There is hardly any doubt now that
both were murdered. The daughter of
the unfortunate couple was the first to
make the discovery. She went up stairs
after finding the body of her father and
saw the form of her mother lying on the
floor. She thought she had fallen in a
swoon, but then finding that she too was
murdered, the girl fled down stairs and
fainted. The police have searched in vain
for any clew to the murderer. They are
now after a Portuguese who runs the
Borden farm at Gardner's Neck and who,
it is said, was in the house a few min-
utes before the bodies were discovered.
It is reported that word was sent to
Mrs. Borden this morning that a sick
friend desired to see her to-day, but she
didn't go out.
It is said that the servant, Bridget Sulli-
van, says she went into the room to make
some inquiry of Mr. Borden about five
minutes before Lizzie Borden gave the
alarm. He was then sitting on the sofa
reading a newspaper. Mr. Borden was
on the street and in several of the banks
as late as 10 o'clock.
Source: The Evening Standard (Second Edition), Thursday, August 4, 1892, p.6, col. 5.

New Bedford, MA, paper-found on microfiche-New Bedford Public Library

Also located in:
Lizzie Borden, Did She?...or...Didn't She?
Copyright © 1992 by Historical Briefs, Inc.


Note that Lizzie discovers both bodies, then faints. Mrs. Borden gets a message, not a note, but does not go out. Someone from the farm was in house before the crime, and Bridget speaks with Mr. Borden 5 minutes before Lizzie discovers the bodies.

In many ways, this account seems more plausible to me. It makes the other accounts seem like subterfuge ang cover-up.

The goofy part of the account is that Lizzie supposedly finds Abby on the floor in a possible swoon, but her body is discovered face down on the bed in a pool of blood. Hmm?

Boy, I really want to see that bedspread and those shams.

Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 3:48 pm
by Allen
In my opinion, this account is just a newpaper jumping too early into the story without having all of it's facts straight. Something that seems to have happened quite often in this case in reading over the various reports. It also goes against too many of the known facts which were testified to by witnesses.

Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 7:54 am
by nbcatlover
Just suppose Lizzie had discovered the TWO bodies, then fainted. It's not uncommon for people who experience a great shock to develop a loss of memory about the event. I see this a lot at work and have had a similar experience myself. My mind is not closed about the Borden murders so I like to think about possibilities and how they impact behavior. I can see how "shock" could explain Lizzie's behavior, inconsistencies--possibly confusing events of several days, forgetting Abby had come in, etc.

To me, it's just a way to imagine other scenarios. I have a strong lead on the "someone" who Andrew did not want to rent to...and he seems to have a connection to Rufus Robinson (whose sons got a rememberance in Lizzie's will).
I've had the opportunity to be involved in some insurance investigations so I like to look at EVERY possiblity, EVERY scenario.

Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 11:38 am
by Kat
Yes I get both your viewpoints.
I've been wondering a lot along the lines of what might have *really* happened if some witnesses were discounted or wrong in their times or days.

But that article says Abbie was found on the bed, then says she was on the floor. It reads like they made changes and adjustments to their version as more info came to them?
Of course, that only adds to the confusion.

Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 10:59 pm
by 1bigsteve
Kat @ Wed Aug 04, 2010 7:38 am wrote:Yes I get both your viewpoints.
I've been wondering a lot along the lines of what might have *really* happened if some witnesses were discounted or wrong in their times or days.

But that article says Abbie was found on the bed, then says she was on the floor. It reads like they made changes and adjustments to their version as more info came to them?
Of course, that only adds to the confusion.

Maybe "BY the bed" got turned into "ON the bed" by an excited news reporter. News people seldom get the facts straight, even when they do get all the facts.

-1bigsteve (o:

Re: Different Spin on the Murders

Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 9:57 pm
by Steveads2004
Wondering if there is any news on the lead regarding Rufus Robinson? Never heard of him before can anyone enlighten me?

Re: Different Spin on the Murders

Posted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 1:10 am
by Yooper
"The murder and suicide theory is advanced and finds many supporters."? Really?

Re: Different Spin on the Murders

Posted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 10:06 am
by snokkums
In the article, it states that she was in her own chambers. I thought she was in the guest making the bed. Then the article states she was on the bed. I thought she was found on the floor. Do I have my facts wrong? :shock:

Re: Different Spin on the Murders

Posted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 1:06 pm
by patsy
It is interesting to think that there is more to the statements in this article just for the sake of exploration if nothing else. Aren't there some theories out there that Abby may have been moved by the time her body was photographed, so maybe she was on the bed or then maybe not.

Re: Different Spin on the Murders

Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 12:06 pm
by 1bigsteve
If Abby had been on the bed I'm sure there would have been blood on the spread. That would have been one more, rather large, bloody item to despose of very quickly. I don't see that happening. I think the simplest solution is the best; Abby was killed on the floor (perhaps her body was moved slightly, or her dress was straightened, maybe by the Doctor) and then Andrew was killed about 90 minutes later. She may have been struck while leaning over the bed then moved to get away from the killer and ended up on the floor where she was hacked up and died.

-1bigsteve (o:

Re: Different Spin on the Murders

Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 1:55 pm
by shakiboo
Murder, suicide? Let's see, did Andrew hit himself in the face with an axe multiple times, then with his last breath hide the axe, so well it's never been found? That does explain why he looks so uncomfortable laying the way he is, he died before he could get comfy. Had Abby been on the bed when she was killed, you'd be able to see the blood in the pictures that show the bed. If she was moved at all it was probably so they could check for a pulse, and I agree they would have fixed her dress if it had been hiked up at all, respect and modesty would have dictated that.

Re: Different Spin on the Murders

Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 12:51 pm
by Yooper
Maybe Andrew killed Abby and he used a double bit axe, which might have recoiled as he struck her. His own wounds were the result of the recoiling axe.

Re: Different Spin on the Murders

Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 5:09 pm
by shakiboo
Yeah, and it stunned him and he thought she was hitting him back, so he kept hitting her, till he had to go lay down.

Re: Different Spin on the Murders

Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 12:14 am
by Yooper
Could be it happened on the stairway and Abby went upstairs to lie down while Andrew went to the sitting room. Abby was likely a bit disoriented, she missed the bed completely, overshot the mark by a couple of feet.

Re: Different Spin on the Murders

Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 9:12 am
by 1bigsteve
Hmmm... wasn't Lee Harvey Oswald seen in town that day with that rickety old rifle, er I mean hatchet? Yes it's all coming together now, it must have been him! :lol:

It would not surprise me if the murder weapon is found when Lizzie's house is one day torn down. If she hid it there in the house she probably removed it later, probably after the trial, but it may still be there hidden between the walls maybe. She may have had a hiding place picked out ahead of time for it. I will always cling to the idea that Abby was killed first in a double murder and the killer was Lizzie or someone she cooperated with. Any other theory doesn't seem to ring true with me. I am sure Lizzie knew a whole lot more than just what came out at the trial.

-1bigsteve (o:

Re: Different Spin on the Murders

Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 10:57 am
by Yooper
It was simpler than that, Steve. Dismayed by the performance of the recoiling axe, Andrew decided to return it for a refund. On his way to the sitting room, he rather unceremoniously tossed it into the closet at the bottom of the stairs, where the intruder was hiding. This completely surprised the intruder, in fact, he was so startled that he jumped back and landed directly on the axe handle. The unfortunate maneuver caused his already rising consternation to reach the nuclear meltdown level. Our boy was sufficiently inspired to vacate the Borden residence with amazing speed, in fact, faster than the human eye could follow, with the axe sort of inadvertently trailing behind. Nothing but a faint "Yaaaa-hoo-hoo-hooey" trailing off in the distance and a vapor trail. This explains why no one saw him leave, and it also explains the groan and scraping sound reportedly heard by Lizzie. Axe me no questions, I'll tell you no lies!

Re: Different Spin on the Murders

Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 5:20 pm
by shakiboo
Well, guys, glad we got that all figured out, and it makes every bit as much sense!

Re: Different Spin on the Murders

Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:50 pm
by Yooper
We have the added advantage of turning it into a cartoon.

Re: Different Spin on the Murders

Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 4:08 pm
by shakiboo
Yes, that's true, and quite amusing as well!! lol A good sense of humor is a great thing, but a great sense of humor is priceless!!!