Lizzie Borden Society Forum

If you have a strong stomach, try this true-crime quiz:

http://investigation.discovery.com/inve ... ibals.html

(This is one of many quizzes on this site.) Don't say I didn't warn you. (This makes Lizzie's crimes look like a tea party.)

Well, that was enlightening!! I got a "not bad" on the test! Your right Constantine, makes Lizzie merciful and compassionate!! There are some really terrifying people out there, and the ones on the test are just the ones who have been caught! Thanks for the link!

Thanks for the thanks! I really was afraid I had gone too far. I was seriously considering removing this.

Well, that was certainly interesting! I also got a "not bad" on the test.

Constantine, I didn’t feel the test was all that bad. The only questions that made me raise an eye brow were the ones on Bernd Jurgen Brandes – I haven’t heard of him, so my answers to those questions were a guess on my part – I just picked the worst of the options listed and ended up getting them right! Theses questions made me wonder why on earth anyone would voluntarily submit to being killed and cannibalized.

The questions regarding Jeffrey Dahmer brought back a memory, which I'll share: A week and a half to two weeks after Dahmer was arrested, I had a mandatory meeting in Milwaukee. During a short break we were informed that the building we were in was located a block from Jeffery Dahmer’s apartment! Talk about giving a person the willies!

That's where I missed the questions, never heard of Brend Jurgen Brandes either, but I picked the less painful, and got it wrong. Crazy doesn't even begin to cover those two. I'm not sure there is a word that could.

I am almost ashamed to admit that I got the answers all right -- even about the meatballs!

No shame in aceing a test!! lol I've read alot about all the rest of them, but had never heard of the meatballs, where and when did they do it?

Pam, check out the following links:

Well, if we can trust Wikipedia – here is what they have on Armin Meiwes and Bernd Jürgen Brandes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernd_J%C3 ... do_Brandes


And here are some other links:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/3286721.stm

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/ ... 01829.html

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/crim ... ism/9.html

Pam, I couldn't find the location for the meatball dinner, but it took place on January 13, 2007. The "artist" has lived in Denmark since the 1980's, so I presume that's where it took place.

Judy, thanks for the links. I'd seen the Wikipedia article, but not the others.

Thanks, Judy for the links! Thank you too, Constantine. Those were two very sick people!!

shakiboo wrote:Thanks, Judy for the links! ...

You're welcome, Pam.

shakiboo wrote:...Those were two very sick people!!

You've got that right! Reading about those two, makes me wonder which one is sicker!

I missed the meatballs answer and yet my gut said pick that one but I went for jerky. Wasn't as familiar with that case at all. Now I'll have to research it.

The saddest part about the Dahmer case was knowing that a young boy escaped and tried to get help from police officers who let Dahmer talk them into believing there was nothing wrong. Ugh.

patsy wrote:… The saddest part about the Dahmer case was knowing that a young boy escaped and tried to get help from police officers who let Dahmer talk them into believing there was nothing wrong. Ugh.

I agree, Patsy. I not only found it sad, but down right appalling that two police office saw a young boy, who was wandering the streets of Milwaukee naked, drugged, as well as bleeding from his rectum, and didn’t do a thing to protect him. How could they possibly mistake a 14 year old boy for a 19 year old? He doesn't look 19 years old to me! (See photo taken from: http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cg ... id=9353146). I don’t know where their heads were, but they certainly were not thinking with them. Those two offices should have been held responsible as accomplices for killing this young kid.

It is my understanding that the two police officers were fired from the Milwaukee Police Department after their actions were widely publicized, including an audiotape of the officers cracking jokes about having reunited the "lovers", to their dispatcher. The two officers appealed their termination and were then reinstated with back pay. And to top it all off, they were named officers of the year by the police union!

Source: http://www.worldlingo.com/ma/enwiki/en/Jeffrey_Dahmer

Officer's of the year?! I/d say " you've got to be kidding" but I know your not! I guess the people of Milwaukee said nothing. How very sad!!

Yeah, nothing like slapping the entire Sinthasomphone family in their faces!!! I think it is down right appalling!

twinsrwe wrote:Well, that was certainly interesting! The questions regarding Jeffrey Dahmer brought back a memory, which I'll share: A week and a half to two weeks after Dahmer was arrested, I had a mandatory meeting in Milwaukee. During a short break we were informed that the building we were in was located a block from Jeffery Dahmer’s apartment! Talk about giving a person the willies!

Willie who?

Angel wrote:Willie who?

Ellen, 'giving a person the willies', is an expression of a person feeling creepy or uneasy.

As long as "Willie" wasn't given to you in a plastic bag, it's OK. Ed Gein used to give his neighbors gifts of "venison" many years ago.

YIKES!!! Bet they never, ever took gifts from neighbors again!

And Ed Gein wasn't even Greek!

Yooper wrote:As long as "Willie" wasn't given to you in a plastic bag, it's OK. ...

You've got that right!

Yooper wrote:... Ed Gein used to give his neighbors gifts of "venison" many years ago.

That's true. He also told a psychiatrist that he had never shot a deer in his life.

Source: http://everything2.com/title/Ed+Gein

Anyone carving venison for dinner tonight???

I can't imagine being one of the people he gave the "venison" to. It makes my stomach queasy just thinking about the possibility that these people may have eaten human flesh!

Is it any wonder why the people of Plainfield do NOT like talking about Ed Gein?

http://www.roadsideamerica.com/tip/8458

A couple more:

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/seri ... oll/8.html

and

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/seri ... dex_1.html

Bon appetit!

Twinsrwe- I know..I was just kidding around.

Pass the fingers, please.

Angel wrote:Twinsrwe- I know..I was just kidding around.

Well, dang! I fell for that one, hook, line, and sinker, didn't I?

Harry wrote:Pass the fingers, please.

Sorry, Harry, we're having 'leg of human' tonight!

What's this? A Donner party? (Ouch!)

Constantine wrote:What's this? A Donner party? (Ouch!)

Good One!!!

That's one invitation you wouldn't mind getting lost in the mail!!

I'll attend, if I can wear my red and black plaid hat and carry a shovel. I'll leave the venison in the freezer, I promise!

Well, Jeff, you are certainly welcome to wear your red and black plaid hat and carry a shovel if you wish. However, if you decide to wear human flesh, and start dancing around in the moonlight with a knowing grin on your face… Well, then…

Red and black plaid hat, isn't that what Ed Geins wore? Yikes! That would be creepy! One look at that and you'd have a room full of vegitarians!! And if you mention the venison in the freezer, you'd be standing all alone in that room! lol

Dare I say it...........I can dig it!

shakiboo wrote:Red and black plaid hat, isn't that what Ed Geins wore? ...

Yes it is, Pam. Ed Gein's cap was referred to as a 'deerstalker cap'. I think it is ironic that he wore a deerstalker cap, yet claimed that he had never shot a deer in his life!

Yooper wrote:Dare I say it...........I can dig it!

Good one, Jeff!!!

I remember reading that he didn't hunt deer. Probably more of a dear hunter, he killed Bernice Worden during deer season. He may have been easily confused. I really shouldn't joke about it, he had some very serious mental problems. Small consolation to the Worden family and any others affected by his behavior. I think they proved he also killed a woman who owned a tavern, but I can't remember her name. He was also suspected in the death of a young girl, I think from La Crosse if I remember correctly, as well as his own brother and a group of hunters over the years.

You’re right, Jeff, we should not be joking about Ed Gein – he was certainly no joke to the victim’s families, as well as the entire Plainfield community.

The tavern owner was Mary Hogan; Ed admitted to killing her after several days of being interrogated.

You’re right he was suspected of killing his brother, Henry, as well as an 8 year old girl named Georgia Weckler, from Fort Atkinson, WI, and 15 year old Evelyn Hartley, from La Crosse, WI. He was also suspected of killing two deer hunters, Victor Travis and Ray Burgess. These five people do not fit the profile for Gein’s known victims, Mary Hogan and Bernice Worden, who were both middle-aged women.

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/seri ... ill_1.html

http://members.tripod.com/ol_dirty_paul ... d/id7.html

You're right, there was no apparent pattern among victims. His brother was first, I think their mother was still alive at the time. If the girls were killed in the order of youngest first, then the older, he might have been working his way up to adult women if he was unsure of his abilities. I can't quite fit the hunters into that, if he was able to kill adult men, he wouldn't have doubted his abilities. Were the hunters local men? Maybe they had something on him which posed a threat and they were killed out of desperation? Maybe the hypothesis holds up if he doubted his ability to specifically kill females, he had an unusual attachment to his mother.

I remember seeing his car advertised as a sideshow at the state fair in West Allis when I was a kid.

Good point, Jeff! Wait a minute, I think you may be on to something here - Ed may just have been working his way up to adult women if he was unsure of his abilities.

Following is the order of the victim’s death/disappearances:

Henry Gein died on May 16th, 1944. (Augusta Gein was still alive – she died on December 29th, 1945).
The kidnapping of Georgia Weckler occurred on May 1st, 1947.
In November of 1952, Victor Travis and Ray Burgess disappeared.
The disappearance of Evelyn Hartley, occurred on October 24, 1953
Dec 8th, 1954, Mary Hogan mysteriously disappeared from her place of business.
On November 16, 1957, Plainfield hardware store owner Bernice Worden disappeared.

http://serialkillercalendar.com/edgein.html

http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/stre ... ein_cf.htm

Unfortunately, it was never proven that Ed Gein had anything to do with the disappearances of Georgia Weckler, Evelyn Hartley, Victor Travis and Ray Burgess. Now Henry, was a different story, although his death was never proven to be at the hands of Ed, all of the evidence pointed to him. Sound familiar?

A common tie among these cases was that all of the disappearances/deaths happened around or in Plainfield, Wisconsin.

Yooper wrote:I remember seeing his car advertised as a sideshow at the state fair in West Allis when I was a kid.

You're kidding!

I do not recall seeing an advertisement for his car being a sideshow, but I do remember my parents talking about him.

I remember at the time having better use for 25 cents than to look at an old '49 Ford which may or may not have belonged to Ed Gein.

The two girls disappeared from Fort Atkinson and La Crosse, both are a bit of a drive from Plainfield. I don't recall if he had business which would have ordinarily take him to those places. Two hours one way seems like more than a simple joyride, but gas was cheap back then.

I lost my post. So I'm trying again.

I think the man who saw a couple of men bury something at a construction site when Georgia Jean was taken was on to something. For some reason I never thought Ed Gein had anything to do with it There is a lot of background and copies of old newspapers about Georgia Jean's disappearance here. http://home.comcast.net/~georgiajean/

Yooper wrote:... The two girls disappeared from Fort Atkinson and La Crosse, both are a bit of a drive from Plainfield. I don't recall if he had business which would have ordinarily take him to those places. Two hours one way seems like more than a simple joyride, but gas was cheap back then.

That's true, these two towns are quite a distance from Plainfield. I guess that is why I, personally, don't feel Ed had anything to do with these disappearances, nor the disappearance of the two hunters.

However, I do think Ed killed his brother, because Henry had begun to reject Augusta's view of the world and had taken to bad-mouthing her within earshot of him.

http://www.monstropedia.org/index.php?title=Ed_Gein

Thanks for the link, Patsy. I have seen this web site before. As far as I can tell the only thing that linked Ed Gein to her disappearance was the fact that he owned a Ford. Big deal! I am sure that there were many people living in Fall River who owned hatchets, but that does not mean they were involved in Andrew and Abby’s murder.

twinsrwe wrote:Thanks for the link, Patsy. I have seen this web site before. As far as I can tell the only thing that linked Ed Gein to her disappearance was the fact that he owned a Ford. Big deal! I am sure that there were many people living in Fall River who owned hatchets, but that does not mean they were involved in Andrew and Abby’s murder.

That's a good one, Judy! I think I even have a small one out in the garage!

I have one too, Pam. OOPS - does this mean we are now suspects!!! Well, maybe not, since the Borden case is 118 years old !!!

I agree, Ford owners were a rather large group of suspects, but murderers who were also Ford owners was a bit more specific. I don't know if Gein had anything to do with the hunters disappearing, but he would be a logical suspect in the event of anyone reported missing in the area around Plainfield during that time. Were Georgia Weckler and Evelyn Hartley the only two children who went missing in that area during the late 40's and early 50's? If there were others, why wasn't Gein suspected in those cases? I guess it might depend on what they found for evidence, the extent to which they could make an identification of the remains. Given the purpose of Gein's activities, the choice of children is strange. He targeted women closer in age to his mother when he robbed graves, and both Mary Hogan and Bernice Worden were over 50. Maybe trying to make logical sense out of a madman's activities is doomed to failure!

Inside his mind would be a very scary place......