Lizzie Borden Society Forum

I just finished watching "The Legend of Lizzie Borden" (1975) for the first time, which I watched for free via Google Videos (Link:http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 503436401#) and it was actually better than I expected.

The acting was very convincing and well-done, particularly for being a TV movie. Elizabeth Montgomery actually came off as being downright frightening at times in her portrayal of Lizzie, and the eerie music certainly complimented those parts of the film rather nicely. I couldn't believe how much Fritz Weaver resembled the real Andrew Borden-he was definitely the perfect fit for the role.

There were two scenes in particular that almost managed to convince me that Lizzie wasn't guilty, but for the most part, the film helped to further solidify my original belief before watching-that she is. The "flashback" scenes were very effective in presenting the various facets of Lizzie's personality-she vacillated between being vulnerable and gentle one moment, and acting impulsive, selfish and materialistic the next.

I think the only thing about this film that I wasn't too crazy about (at least not at first) was the "hatchet-stealing" scene at the store. I'm not so sure she necessarily would've had to steal the hatchet used in the crime if she was the killer, but I suppose that scene was included to illustrate a popular Lizzie rumor-that she may have potentially been a kleptomaniac, so looking at the scene from that perspective, it kinda made sense to me.

Yes, As fiction it's a great movie. Many take for face value many of the accounts of that movie as real. Great sets and costumes. Though, the house is a little ostentatious, as the real house is plain and dated.

This movie did more to convict Lizzie than most books written about the crime. Most who saw the movie believe that it's the way it really happened. Montgomery's acting was very surprising.......good.

Of course, there is no proof that Lizzie ever stole anything, or that she was a kleptomaniac. The fact that came into light much later in Lizzie's life was when she was accused of stealing small porcelain painting from a Providence R.I. store. (Tilden and Thurber)

There is no proof that the item was stolen by Lizzie. It could have been given to her by someone else and Lizzie in turn re-gifted it to someone else, who then returned to Tilden and Thurber to have some work done on it.

It was really Lizzie's word against Tilden.

From this the world of Lizzie has turned her into a kleptomaniac.

Great movie.......but many self serving assumptions.

Just one man's preconceived and somewhat bias telling.

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When Lizzie walks out with the axe she steals, I love the scene at the store door and the sign that states "IRISH KEEP OUT."

Again.......

This (the sign) also is over-the-top.

Though there was a possible chance that such a sign would hang in a store front, in fall river, this was highly unlikely. Some private clubs perhaps, but fall river was not that type of town. The Irish were well ingrained in fall river's social and collective community. If you remember, half the police at the time of the murder were Irish. There were countless Irish merchants and town officials. Though there were strong prejudices of the Irish, it was not any different as that experienced by the Portuguese, French and other non-English peoples.

IRISH KEEP OUT.

Another bit of fiction.

But, a nice movie prop, with plenty of truth. But, not in fall river, especially by 1892.

mbhenty wrote: Though, the house is a little ostentatious, as the real house is plain and dated.

That's probably the only other thing that disappointed me about the film-the house used looked nothing like 92 Second St., especially the exterior. But being a TV movie, the budget couldn't have been too huge, and the real house was still a private residence at that time, so options were probably pretty limited in that department.

mbhenty wrote: When Lizzie walks out with the axe she steals, I love the scene at the store door and the sign that states "IRISH KEEP OUT."

Again.......

This (the sign) also is over-the-top.

I thought so, too...thanks to my college history classes, I'm aware that there was quite a bit of discrimination against and disdain for Irish immigrants, but that was more around the 1830's-1840's-I'm sure that by 1892, attitudes towards the Irish had changed drastically-at least I hope they did.

And, you do know, the older lady who snitches on Lizzie to the shopkeeper is the late Gloria Stuart, of TITANIC fame. She does NOT, as she claims in her memoirs, say "She's got an axe!" "Miss Borden took something..I don't know, but I'm sure she took something!" That's most of what she actually says in the scene, bless her.

According to Arnold Brown's book the Irish made up only 7% of the population (page 18, paperback).

What his source is I have no idea.

From FALL RIVER MASSACHUSETTS A CITY OF OPPORTUNITY, a publication put out by The FAll River Trade and Industry Association, 1914, Fall River had it's highest population count, 119,000.

Of that it lists the Irish at just under 8 percent. The ruling class were the French, with double that number.

Some interesting facts are: FALL RIVER POPULATION 119,225, IRISH, 15,104, PORTUGUESE 13.334, and FRENCH 32,236.

Interesting enough, there's a category for "ATLANTIC ISLANDERS. These were probably the Azores, Madeira, Cape Verde, from which most are Portuguese. It lists them as 1,304. If true that would give the Portuguese a total population of 14,638, almost as many as the Irish.

By the 1960's the Portuguese and it's descendants numbered well over 50 percent of fall river's population. Of that, probably 85 to 90 percent of those Portuguese were from the Azores Islands.

Also, the figures given for the Portuguese and the Atlantic Islanders above are probably all wrong. It is more likely that most of those listed under the category PORTUGUESE, were probably from the Azores and Madeira Islands..........the Atlantic Islanders.

Also, most of the French probably were from Canada and not France. (Though, most could have been born in France) The Mill Industry courted the French population across the border.

Since 1950, Lizzie Borden's home town has lost about 22 percent of it's population. Today it has about 90,000.

In contrast, it is interesting to note that Just before/after the Borden Murders, between 1890 and 1900, fall river grew by 30,000 souls.

Also of interest: cities such as Detroit, Buffalo, Cleveland, Gary, Ind. and Youngstown, Ohio have lost over 50 percent of their population since 1950.

I think the sentiment "No Irish need apply" was in effect until the 1920's or 1930's. A large part of that was prejudice against Catholics.