Lizzie Borden Society Forum

I see the family had two privies (sp?) - one in the barn and one in the basement.
Do we know which one they used primarily? Did they use each at different times or seasons?
The records talk about Mr. Borden going out in the morning of the murder to empty his slop bucket -
would this just be his washing/shaving water or does it have to do with toileting?
Would he empty it in the privy? There is a thread about digging
up the privy but is that the outside one in the barn? Did anyone investigate the inside one? I've read where the lack
of indoor plumbing was a bit of a sore point for Emma and Lizzie so it seems an interesting topic to ponder...;)

I don't really blame Lizzie or Emma for being more than a little displeased about not having real bathrooms-having to go that far to use the privy had to be such a pain, and I'm sure having to empty those buckets was no picnic, either!

I respect Andrew for not having been frivolous with his money, but not even wanting to outfit the Second Street house with at least one modern bathroom really shows that he took being financially conservative to the extreme.

But given that he grew up poor, I can kinda see how he ended up being that way.

There isn't a lot of information about the use of the privy in the barn or the water closet in the basement, but the barn facility might have been used seasonally.

Bridget, Preliminary, p. 33:
Q. That privy out behind the barn, was that used by any member of the family, was that in use?
A. Mr. Borden used it.
Q. Did anybody else besides him?
A. Mrs. Borden sometimes.
Q. Did you ever know the girls to use it?
A. No Sir.

The slop pail was likely used as a toilet at night, it would save lighting a lamp and going either to the barn or to the basement. There was testimony about Andrew taking a bowl of water to his room the morning of the murders, probably to wash with. He stopped at the barbershop for a shave that morning.

The privy in the barn was the one dug up. There was a water closet in the basement with running water. The facilities were primitive by today's standards, but at the time they were a bit less out of date. They were likely a step upward for Andrew, who may have been used to a hand pump for water and an outhouse. However, I expect women have less tolerance for those conditions, especially when they're aware of better being available.

I know Andrew grew up poor, but not to have conviences in th house is really going overboard to save money. I guess he felt like, waste not want not. No wonder Lizzie wanted him dead. And then giving part of what she thought was her inheirtance to Abby, was unforgiveable in her mind.

I wonder how much installing a real bathroom that actually had plumbing would've cost back when Andrew bought the house....

So, can we safely assume, then, from Bridget's testimony, that Emma and Lizzie used the indoor
privy exclusively?
And I think indoor plumbing would be pretty costly but he had the dough...

Yes.....We must keep in mind that in 1892 the flush toilet was still in it's infancy and evolving swiftly. That the Borden's did not have a modern bathroom in 1892 is not only not surprising, but likely. It could have had more to do with the advent of the modern toilet and the ongoing inventions in plumbing at the time, which lend to the delay and the installation of a proper privy in the Borden household. Old man Borden being a frugal and cautious man would also have something to do with it.

Borden had recently installed modern central heating, in the way of a boiler and radiator system in the house; an expensive proposition . Central heating was a new technology, less than a decade or so, and though they were becoming popular in public buildings, it was not yet in common use in the average house hold. Andrew Borden had the insight, the pluck and spent the cash to have one installed.

Though we see it as a problem, I can not remember reading anywhere where Lizzie or Emma complained about the toilet facilities. Conducting such affairs were common and accepted just as they were. It's the way everyone had it. Even many of the rich. And if they did not, the delay in installing anything more contemporary, such as a proper indoor bathroom, can very well be understood, and nothing out of the ordinary in late 19th century New England.

We measure such things by our standards. To conduct such personal and private business in the cellar or barn is unthinkable. A pan under the bed is even more insufferable.

Even toilets, such as the one in the photos below, were not in use until the late 1890's and 1900's.

So, it is not surprising that the Borden Bowl was in the basement, and a visit to the basement, close to the roaring fire of the newly installed boiler, must have been much more comfortable then doing your business with the pigeons.



http://jenfitchstyle.wordpress.com/2010 ... e-toilets/

Wow! That's way to beautiful to use..... I had no idea they were so pretty. Of course that wouldn't be what you'd find in an average person's home. But I see why "sitting on the throne" was coined for some one using the toilet. lol Thanks for sharing!

Yeah, I'd like to sit on one of those. I might even take alittle extra time to read the paper! LOL!

Marg wrote:So, can we safely assume, then, from Bridget's testimony, that Emma and Lizzie used the indoor
privy exclusively?
And I think indoor plumbing would be pretty costly but he had the dough...

That's been my take on it, the women used the indoor facility, and Abby may have used the barn privy if the indoor toilet was occupied. I'm not certain if Andrew had running water installed in the house or if the previous owner installed it. There was a well on the premises, so at one time the occupants had to haul water from the well. If the upper half of the original duplex was the same as the lower, there would have been a correspondent sink room in the upper unit. There might have been a way to convert this room into a bathroom, if Andrew had been so inclined. If the kitchen sink was moved to the kitchen proper, the lower sink room might also have been converted.