Lizzie Borden Society Forum

As to the autopsy at the murder house on August 4th, it was held at 3:00 pm or 3:30 pm (two different sources say two different things). Nobody was given an autopsy on the dining room table. Undertaker boards were brought in - held on the ends by two chairs. It was not even a "first autopsy", but merely a "partial" one. There was a concern that the couple had been poisoned. Dr. Draper wanted the stomachs of each body removed. They were placed in jars and sealed, prior to their trip to Harvard to be tested by Professor Wood. During the stomach removal procedures, Andrew was in the sitting room. Abby was in the dining room. (Rebello, pg. 99) The milk in the ice box was also tested.

Winward's Undertaking Rooms was chosen by Lizzie to be "in charge of the funerals"... "Although James C. Renwick was the undertaker who actually prepared the bodies for burial and testified at the trial, it was James E. Winward who escorted Lizzie from the Borden home, where the funerals were held to a carriage waiting to transport the mourners to Oak Grove Cemetery for the burial services." (Hoffman's "Yesterday in Fall River", pg. 376).

According to James Winward's testimony at the Preliminary Hearing (the Koorey/Widdows version, page 298-300) Winward says he was the one who took the things out of Andrew Borden's clothes and took them to Dr. Dolan. He did not take anything from Abby's pocket.

Jennings cross-examines Winward:
Q: Did you at any time receive permission from Dr. Dolan to bury the bodies?
A: Well, he delivered the bodies to me.
Q: When?
A: That afternoon, about half past five.
Q: For burial?
A: I presume it was for burial; there was not anything said about what it was for.
Q: What did he say when he delivered them to you?
A: Dr. Tourtellot asked me if Dr. Dolan had given me charge of the bodies. I said no. The Doctor came along a few minutes afterwards, I said to him "are you through with the bodies?"
Q: You said to whom?
A: Dr. Dolan.
Q: Said what?
A: I asked him if he had finished, if he was through with the bodies?
Q: What did he say?
A: He said, "yes, you may take them now."
Q: Anything else?
A: That is all.
Q: Now when was that?
A: Well, I should think it was about half past five.
Q: What day?
A: The day of the murder.
Q: August 4th?
A: Yes.
Q: Did you have any communication from him right after that in regard to the burial of the bodies?
A: I did the morning of the funeral.
Q: What day was that?
A: Saturday.
Q: When Saturday?
A: One of my assistants came to Mr. Borden's house, I should think after nine o'clock, perhaps half past nine.
Q: Saturday, somewhere about nine o'clock?
A: Yes, Sir.
Q: What were you notified then?
A: I was notified not to bury them.
Q: But between the time of having the bodies turned over to you by Dr. Dolan, and nine o'clock Saturday morning, had you proceeded to prepare the bodies for burial?
A: I had.
Q: And were they all prepared for burial?
A: They were.
Q: Do you know whether Dr. Dolan knew that you were preparing them for burial?
A: I do not know.
Q: Did you see him up in the house there, while you were engaged in it?
A: The only time I saw him, I went in with him on Friday night.
Q: Went in with him where?
A: Into the room where the bodies were.
Q: Were they then in the caskets?
A. No. They were on boards; they were not prepared then.
Q: Was anything said about burying them then?
A: No Sir.
Q: He did not notify you not to bury them?
A: No Sir. (end of Winward's testimony)

James Winward testified at the trial and was asked if he saw Lizzie's high school ring on Andrew, but Winward said he didn't remember.

I don't know where Renwick's testimony is, as mentioned by Hoffman. Maybe he is in error, or maybe I cannot find it.

The day of the funeral:
The bodies were laid out in the dining room, and the coffins were open. The heads were placed toward the east. Upon Andrew's lay a wreath of ivy. On Abby's a bouquet of white roses, ferns and pea blossoms tied with a white satin ribbon adorned her. The funeral itself took place in the sitting room. The coffins were made of cedar with three silver handles on each side. Inscribed on the lid were: "Andrew Borden, Died Aug. 4, Aged 70 Years". He was not 70 years old. His birthday was on September 22, 1822. Abby's coffin only gave her name and age. Both were covered in black broadcloth.

Lizzie was not in mourning. She wore a black lace dress with bead trimmings, "which fitted her rounded and shapely body faultlessly. She wore a bonnet of dark material, relieved by small, high flowers and was not in mourning." (Boston Daily Globe, August 6, 1892) I dunno - that sounds pretty much like being in mourning to me.

Abbie Potter was quoted at the age of 81 as saying, "There were no flowers in the room. The funeral ceremony consisted of a reading from the Scriptures and the recitation of a series of prayers." (From "Goodbye, Lizzie Borden", pg. 38 - 40) There was no singing and no remarks. A simple service was performed by The Reverend Dr. Adams of the First Congregational Church and City Missionary Buck.

Once at the cemetery, everyone stayed in their carriage except for John Morse (why doesn't that surprise me?), the clergy, pall bearers and those undertaker's assistants that were necessary at this time. The sides of the graves were lined with thin cloth, and the tops covered with fir branches. (Rebello, p 104)

The bodies were not buried after everyone left but taken to a receiving tomb to await the full autopsies. After the second autopsy, the heads of the Bordens were removed at Oak Grove Cemetery. It was August 11, 1892 the same day as the autopsy in the tomb, one week after death and five days after the funeral - the same day that Lizzie was arrested (trial testimony of Dr. Dolan, pages 977, 978). The bodies were buried after this autopsy. The skulls were buried after the trial.

Abby and Andrew's second, or "full autopsy", was held in one of the buildings still at Oak Grove Cemetery. The office said you couldn't go in there, and I did peek. Down a few concrete steps was what I thought was the room they did the autopsies at. There was a quarry tile floor (orange, clay-pot colored in medium sized squares seemingly made of clay) and it had drain holes in it. I don't want to say which building it was, because I don't want to create another Green Street trespassing incident. Cool to know that the actual building the Bordens got their autopsies in is still there.

After all this, I still don't know if Winward took the bodies to his funeral home to prepare them or if he did it at the Borden home. His saying he took the bodies could have meant he took charge of the bodies, that Dr. Dolan meant, "Okay, Winwood. You can have 'em now and do your thing," - not meaning have them to take to his business, but meaning the bodies could now be in Winward's care.

It is confusing what house they are talking about when Winward said he and Dr. Dolan went in a room on Friday night and the bodies were not in caskets but on the boards still. That doesn't make sense if the bodies were laying on boards in the dining room. I don't think anyone said "dining room table" at any time, btw. At least, I can't find it.

I tend to think that Winward physically took the bodies to his funeral parlor about 5:30 pm on August 4th, and that he and Dr. Dolan looked at them on boards on Friday, August 5th, at Winward's. And then Winward delivered them, in their caskets, to the Borden home on Saturday morning.

I think it's possible they were kept in the Borden home and were indeed laying out in the dining room. I think it's possible the autopsies were performed right there. If they were being done in the home into the twentieth century I don't think it's stretch it was all performed right there. The autopsy photo's seem to support this. That is the Borden home in the background of Andrew's autopsy photo's. That would mean transporting the bodies through town and back again during the height of the frenzy after the killings.I think there would've been mention in the papers about that. I'm sure crowds would have gathered for that spectacle. If they gathered just for Uncle John walking down the street, I don't think a carriage carrying the bodies would be missed. I think we get a glimpse of the couch Lizzie lay on after the murders in the photo's.

Well, that first "procedure" done in the home was just the removal of the stomach. In court it was referred to as an autopsy (or partial autopsy). I suppose that was the correct wording, since "autopsy" means "to see", doesn't it? But they did not do a whole bonafide autopsy in the Borden house.

That is very true, Allen, and an excellent point. The public woulda went nutz if the bodies were taken out of the house at about 5:30 the evening of the murders. Yeah, Morse got chased but good, didn't he.

I wish we had more info on Winward's actions. We come so close to learning just what happened with the bodies, and then somebody goes and says something vague in the transcript.

Still nothing on Renwick. Hoffman must have gotten that info from some place.

BTW, Allen - I so enjoyed your post on Pretty Boy Floyd. Thanks for sharing your photos. I've been to that area several times but hadn't known that place was there. I'll have to google it and see just where it is and make a point to see it when I'm down there again.

I've been into gangsters since I was a kid. I used to enjoy hearing my father talk about remembering Bonnie & Clyde and Dillinger's exploits in the papers when he was a kid. One time he took us all out to Little Bohemia, and Emil Wanatka Jr. was there, running his supper club, but he wouldn't talk to my dad. One of my relatives was associated with Al Capone. I found a cool website at http://www.myalcaponemuseum.com . In one part, it shows a great photo collection of the inside - and outside - of his infamous house in Florida. I always wanted to see that place, and this was the next best thing to going.

augusta wrote:W

I've been into gangsters since I was a kid. I used to enjoy hearing my father talk about remembering Bonnie & Clyde and Dillinger's exploits in the papers when he was a kid. One time he took us all out to Little Bohemia, and Emil Wanatka Jr. was there, running his supper club, but he wouldn't talk to my dad. One of my relatives was associated with Al Capone. I found a cool website at http://www.myalcaponemuseum.com . In one part, it shows a great photo collection of the inside - and outside - of his infamous house in Florida. I always wanted to see that place, and this was the next best thing to going.

Thanks for sharing the link augusta. That is a very cool museum. I'd like to visit it sometime. And thanks also for sharing your stories. Little Bohemia had to be a very exciting experience. I would love to have had the chance to see it myself. Gangsters and outlaws are fascinating to me as well.

What embalming liquids, if any were used back then? I know this is a grisly topic, but can you imagine the smell of decomposing bodies in a house that small? And in the summer heat? I live in a house built in 1927 and we have field mice that (despite our exterminators best efforts) die behind the walls. Just one of them is enough to cause the whole house to have a terrible odor in it.

I've read that herbs were put out in dishes (rosemary is one mentioned) to mitigate the smell, but still. Perhaps we are just used to everything being so sanitized in our modern day world. I often wonder about how differently the world smelled back 100-150 years ago. All that wool, those layers of clothing, and only bathing was basically done sponge-bath, piecemeal style, was it not?

I know that embalming actually started during the Civil War to get the bodies home to the families.
I remember my mother telling me that my grandmother was laid out at home in the living room and people came to the house to pay their last respects.

Don't know about other states and their laws, but here you can still "lay out" a body for viewing in your own home, if you so choose. However, state law requires embalming, and only the funeral homes can sell caskets, so they still get a big piece of the action, as it were. A body must first be transported to a funeral home for embalming, where it is placed in a casket sold by said funeral home. But, after that, the body can be "laid out" for viewing in a private residence.*

It seems ghoulish, but it was a practice of yore (well, it still goes on, just not as widespread) to kiss the corpse full on the lips. Many people "coming in" for a funeral from "way off" expected to have their chance at kissing the deceased a final farewell.

There were so many mass casualties during the Civil War that attitudes/practices concerning death evolved. Yes, this was the time at which many funeral homes came into being. If you live in a Southern city or town with one or more "historic" funeral homes, these usually date from the Civil War period.

* One can, however, make one's own coffin! I had a neighbor who actually crafted his own, and his wife's. They looked nice, as far as a coffin can. And, they have gone into use.

nowadays you can order a casket online, even from Walmart.

In this state, the funeral homes have a monopoly on casket sales. The only way around it is to make your own! (Which is how I suspect the State got away with said law, by providing some sort of loophole to the concept of setting up a monopoly.)
Anyway, quite a racket. And, state law requires embalming, so there's no way around transporting the body to a licensed funeral home, where-- voila-- one must choose from a casket sold by that emporium, if one has not been so industrious as to construct one's own.

But: One needn't pay for a funeral-home viewing room. One can still lay out a body in one's own home, just as in the "good old days."

When my aunt passed away, her body was suppose to be donated to the medical school. They wouldn't take it because of jaundice. The funeral director told me that if there was no viewing she didn't have to be embalmed but if not she would have to be buried within so many hours. It's really strange how you don't find out about these little things until you're put into the situation.

One of my great grandfathers died in 1920. He was taken to a neighborhood funeral home for embalming and the viewing was at home. My great grandmother and several of the children still occupied the house at the time. His wife, my great grandmother, died in 1934, coincidentally the same day as John Dillinger shot his way out of Little Bohemia in northern Wisconsin. Her funeral took place entirely at the funeral home, preparation and viewing. By that time the children had their own families and there was no one left in the house. I'm not sure if the arrangements were more a matter of practicality or if the styles had changed in the meantime.

Back in the day, in large houses with two front parlors that could be shut off with pocket doors, with plenty of windows that were regularly open in seasonable weather, with large porches to absorb the overflow of visitors, and with plenty of "help" to clean up and staff the kitchen-- the idea of opening one's home to receive visitors for a viewing was more amenable.

Indeed, in the days before TV & radio, it was probably quite an entertainment.

Read Eudora Welty's Pulitzer Prize-winning novel "The Optimist's Daughter." Much of the story involves an in-home viewing in a Mississippi town during the 1960s. It's priceless.

The last time I attended a funeral-home viewing, I stood in line for at least an hour to speak to the family of the deceased. When I left, the line was even longer than when I first arrived! I mean, it hugged the edges of a huge receiving room, trailed out the door, and ended on the porch of the funeral home.

There's a problem with these receiving lines in funeral homes, one which causes the attendee to yearn for the days of in-home viewings. I lay the blame on those (mostly little old ladies) who stop the line cold when they reach the family, determined to spend twenty minutes with each and every person receiving at the front. If you need to visit for an extended period, for whatever reason, then drop by the deceased's home with a casserole and/or cake. Better yet, an overflowing picnic basket. You will be warmly received, most probably, and can visit as long as they'll let you.

I can't wait to get a copy of that book. I have two books for people interested in the history of funeral customs. One is called The Victorian Undertaker by Trevor May, the other called Coffins, Kits, and More! Stories of the Civil War Embalmers by Lee Ward. I didn't find them gruesome at all, I found them quite interesting in an historical perspective because it is what people did years ago.