Lizzie Borden Society Forum

Yes:

fall river a city of no pride or respect

Say good bye to Lizzie Borden's church.

Many on here have heard (read) my rants about Historical matters.

The city of fall river (small f, small r, for small minds) will not stand in the way to stop this travesty.

Fall river has no respect for it's history or it's past, and those who pretend to do so.........well, many are just cowards.

But this is nothing new. I predicted this right here on this forum.

Read it and weep.

pi--es me off.

http://mondolizzie.com/MondoLizzie/

Thanks for posting this, MB, it is such a shame.

Yes, where there's a will, there's a way. But, in fall river there is no will, and no way. The cities' motto is We''ll Try.

Don't you believe it.

Below is a postcard of the interior of the church when the culinary school was there several years ago. This is the inside of the actual church.

You can't see it in this photo, but on the other side of the wall on the left is a huge iron wrecking ball.

WOW, the interior of the church is absolutely beautiful! It is incredibly sad, that a beautiful building like this will be destroyed if back taxes are not paid up.

Oh what a shame to lose such a piece of history as well as something so beautiful.

It is such a shame that such a beautiful building with so much history attached to it is going to be torn down. What is even shameful is the city not giving a damn.

I understand if you're upset because Fall River is letting a historic building be razed because you appreciate historical buildings, but I hope it's not just because it was 'Lizzie's Church'.

Lizzie Borden was in the first book I ever read about murder. Even at age 8 I thought the whole story sounded off. She inspired a love of murder and real crime that has lasted almost 40 years. However I can understand why a town wouldn't want to be remembered for a murder. To save something just because of a criminal attachment (innocent or guilty) is too much.

I would prefer it saved due to its age, but not its association. Nobody in LA complained when the Sharon Tate house was razed, and that was the actual house the murders took place in.

Yes: woundedtomato:

My complaint about "Lizzie's Church" is strictly an historical one. That building is worth a hundred Maplecorfts or 92 Second Streerts.

It stands as one of the corner stones to the city's archival past. Gothic Architecture, Ruskinian Gothic. Probably the only example in Fall River. (Sorry, I mean fall river)

The fact that Lizzie Borden attended CCC enhances it's value very little, and for me, not at all.

It's about the historical content and the fact that fall river is well known for having little respect or value for any historical edifice.

In a recent battle between Assonett, fall river and the State of Massachusetts where fall river fought to have an industrial park erected despite the historical value in the plot of land to be used, the Secretary of State of Massachusetts William Galvin, went as far as to accuse fall river of having "no respect for their Architectural property."

The land they wanted to use was used extensively by the Pocasset Wampanog Indians and a vital crossing point between the fall river area and Somerset and Swansea, Dighton area by that Indian tribe. The state of Massachusetts required that they wait and do some digging before erecting any buildings, and to search for proof or Indian artifacts or possible Indian graves. The company and the city did not want to wait. It would have been an extra cost that they did not want to pay. Indian History is not of value to the city. There were other locations to build. The plot of land they wanted to use is one of the most beautiful spots on the Taunton River with lovely and graceful views of the river and the Somerset/Dighton river shore. To build an industrial park there would have been a shame.

Look at the two historical and wonderful buildings fall river let be demolished in the last couple of years. Saint Louis and Saint Marks Church. One of so they could build a parking lot.

No, Lizzie Borden has nothing to do with it.

As far as this site is concerned, Lizzie Borden has everything to do with it. It's all about Lizzie Borden. If not, the statements above could be misconstrued as a political one. Yes, about Lizzie's Chursh.




Wooow, Davey Jones of the Monkeys just died.



It is true, and everyone knows it. Fall river doesn't care. Most who live her think the term I.Q describes a soft drink.

Erase the past and you can exploit the future.

Ok, I understand. I truly hate to see history being razed too. Yes I agree a church is worth 100 Maplecrofts etc. I'm not a religious person, but saving the parts of the past that are associated with good is much better than saving something attached with the bad of this world. Unless of course its something like a Holocaust museum, some bad things need to be remembered forever.

Two side thoughts from your post:

1.Davey Jones died? Sad i loved the tv show.

2.Erase the past and you can exploit the future My greataunt used to say "If you forget the past you are doomed to relive it in the future." I found out later it's almost a quote from someone famous. How a woman brought up in the deep south who never went past 4th grade in a one room school house knew it I'll never know.

That is actually a very popular saying, and very wise words to live by. I'd have to say that the fourth grade curriculum of that time in some instances would rival the seventh or eighth grade curriculum in today's schools. Thus is the slow dumbing down of our nation. I know several high school students in my area who are still unsure of how to tell time from anything but a digital clock.

Yes:

The point I was making pertained to historical architecture.... has to do with the building itself, and of course the history that comes along with it, but with no particular bias or particular regard for who attended, lived in, or what it was used for.

Considering it is one of two examples of Ruskinian Gothic Architecture in the city is of vital interest and concern. (the other being a private residence. The Remington House on Rock Street. Fall river likes to brag that it is the most beautiful house in fall river)

I know I mentioned churches, and gave two examples. I did so because they were recent demolitions. My concern is the history of the building itself. LIzzie and religion aside, but not completely. Both cannot be ignored as adding some value to the buildings of course. Not that I am shunning religion....you understand.

Just like Allen mentioned that there are kids today who can not read a clock unless it's digital, there are adults who have no interest in, and are completely oblivious to antiquity.

You know Allen, I met a couple of kids like that. Kids who could not read a standard clock. When I first heard this, I thought the kid was just pulling my leg. Then I thought she was just an exceptional dummy. Then a met another, and another, and discovered that there was a problem here. And the problem is with the parents. Kids should know how to read an analog clock before the even start grade school. Thus, the fact that they cannot, tells me more about their parents then the kids themselves.

In fall river the common man on the street would vote for new, new, new, every time. If you run into one of them on the street, and you discover that they have young kids, I would not be surprised if they could not read a standard clock.

Just a couple of months ago the city demolished the Morton Jr. High School building, to build a new school. It was a grand old building, and renovated, would have made an excellent home for the elderly or modern condos, or even as another school. But such a plan never entered the brains of city fathers. Again, new, new, new. And when the new school is finished, you can be sure that all the classrooms will have digital clocks.

Two of the photos below are of the old Morton Jr. High, which is no longer standing, and the other is of the Gothic Remington House.

Yes:

I know this is a little off topic.

I mentioned the Remington House above. Gothic Architecture.

I don't know how many times I have seen mentions about the Remington House describing it as the most beautiful house in the city.

There is no doubt that it is beautiful. That it is the "most" beautiful is questionable.

Now, there's another similar gothic home in New Bedford, Ma. that I love.

As far as Gothic Revival, to me it is definitely one of the most beautiful Gothic Revival home in the country.

Right know it's for sale. I've included a series of photos.

It was built by William Rotch who was into whaling and the richest man in New Bedford at the time, being the 1840s, when the house was built.

It is known as the William J Rotch House.

Perhaps one of our members from New Bedford can tell us something about it.

Beautiful, beautiful, yes, just beautiful. What a wonderful building......

Yes:

One note about the school that the demolished just about 6 weeks past. The James Madison Morton Junior High School.

At the time I attended, back in 1867......or was it 1967? It included grades 7,8, and 9.

There is a somewhat indirect Lizzie Borden connection with the old brick school.

Morton eventually became a federal judge. But, before that........

Some years after the trail of Lizzie Borden James Madison Morton went into partnership with Andrew Jennings, the Borden family lawyer, at Jennings and Morton Law Offices.

Morton died in fall river in 1940. So let's see.....the school was built in 1925 when he was still alive. When Morton Jr. High was built in 1925 James Madison Morton lived at 484 Highland Ave. Known as the Simeon Borden House. Built in 1875.

The Simeon Borden house is also of Ruskinian Gothic Architecture.

Which makes me wrong in my post above. I wonder who many other Gothic structures I missed to mind.

I'll look and let you know.

Until then, it's OK to knock down the CC Church. We don't need it. We have the Simeon Borden House as an example of Gothic Architecture.

Yes Ok.

In my passion to complain about the CC Church and its future demise I was in error calling it one of two Gothic Examples. Yep, I.....was....w...w...wrong.

So, I had to go looking. One building that was in my face and I did not mention, was the Academy Building on Main Street. Then there were the Churches, which included the First Congregational, St. Patricks, St. Mary's and the Church of the Ascension on Rock Street. Yep, missed them all. No gargoyles though.

Oh yes, and the first Baptist on Main Street. And, a building used by the city which was once a church on Griffin Street, with the only slight sign that it was Gothic filled in arches over the windows.

There's also an old Fire House on Freedom Street which is considered Gothic, though it doesn't look like one.

There are also a hand full of private residences that are Gothic. Maybe three or four.

There's one just across from the old Durfee High School building on the corner of Rock and Locust. Most of the Gothic embellishments have been stripped off, but you can still see the little arches over the windows. Take those away, and you wouldn't know, though the steep multiple dormer peeks could be a hint.

And finally there is another that look totally intact. I drive by it at least once a week and never really studied it. A very simple example but still nice. 254 Rock Street. Actually a very old house, built in 1844 and known as the John Hathaway House. Hmmm? If I remember correctly, the one on the corner of Cherry is also Gothic.

That's about it.

Below is the house on Locust, with the peeks, and the wonderful little Carpenter's Gothic on Rock Street. Perfect little house, really.