Lizzie Borden Society Forum

Here's a link to the big news in today's Herald News. It's not like we already knew what was going to happen.
http://www.heraldnews.com/site/news.cfm ... 9784&rfi=6

Thanks, Mark!


"The exterior of the Borden home will be painted in its original mustard color. Inside the infamous home, some rooms will get new draperies, and several pieces of furniture will be re-upholstered or purchased."

Huh?
Maybe someone should give them the benefit of Grouard's testimony about the color "Drab?" (Trial, Vol. 5)

We have a discussion on this somewhere.

Edit here: I looked at Grouard and he's not that helpful. He has a light drab and a darker drab Our discussion here with Susan and everyone might be worth finding.

http://lizzieandrewborden.com/Archive70 ... RGreek.htm

OOO this was good! But no Drab yet...

I took it from the link to Susan's information that the colors 'drab' and 'fawn' were synonymous.

Remember the colour wheel?
Susan had a lot of info on drab.
I think it turned out to be a grayish-greenish color like a military colour?

thanks for the link Mark, great to hear they will
plant pear trees. The Leary bldg was 8000 sq. ft,
yikes! or did I read it wrong, that seems incredible.
whatever, i'm so glad they are tearing it down! thanks for the interesting article.

The Leary Press was HUGE! I couldn't believe how big it was, like you.

There were little cat paw prints in the red cement right in front of the steps down to the cellar. The owner was enamoured of them and hoped to keep them somehow.

I looked up Raymond's testimony and Grouard's and they don't describe "Drab."

I looked in my 1897 Funk & Wagnall's and "Drab" was described as a "Yellowish-gray."

I am really happy that the new owners wish to restore the house as they do.

I have driven by it but never been inside and am planning a trip there in the spring....

I wonder if it will be closed for a time?

http://www.lizzieandrewborden.com/Archi ... rdcord.htm

I found the discussion and Susan's color chart.

Thanks, Mark, great article!

Ah, Lizzie and that perfect shade of Drab!

I found this on a search of historic paint colors, this company offers a Drab, I imagine the DH is Dulux Heritage:



And their description of the color:

DH DRAB
A deep earth green thought perfect for combining with warmer and richer shades such as Salmon, Mineral Red, and Rose Madder, where it would help to intensify the glow of the warmer colours.

From this site:

http://www.heritagepaints.co.uk/victorian.do?item=108

Then there is this, Andrew Jackson Downings original recipes for mixing paints, heres his recipe for Drab:

Drab. White, Venetian red, burnt umber, with a little black.

With color samples using these original recipes, Drab is the second color swatch down.


From this site: http://www.epreservation.net/Resources/ ... Article=19

Greenish brown or grayish brown? My point from long ago was that neither would look like dried blood on Lizzie's Bedford cord dress, nor do they look like Mustard yellow. Hopefully the owners of the B&B delve a bit into the exterior color more and that the news article is wrong.

Thank you for posting the link about the Leary Press building, Mark. I'm glad I had a chance to go into that building during my October visit.

I have written to the B&B with the info we have compiled.
Sherry/Augusta and I wrote back and forth today about this "Drab" and she compiled a short document from Rebello's information from his book, pages 32-34.
I attached that document, the trial testimony, and Susan's color chart with link and small excerpt (Thanks all!).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

"Hello to you all at the Borden B&B!
We of the Lizzie Borden Society (some of which were at your site this past October!) have read in the on-line paper, The Herald News, that the Borden house may eventually be painted 'mustard.'

http://www.heraldnews.com/site/news.cfm ... 9784&rfi=6

'The exterior of the Borden home will be painted in its original mustard color. Inside the infamous home, some rooms will get new draperies, and several pieces of furniture will be re-upholstered or purchased.'

We have discussed the problem before on our Forum, as to what color 'Drab' is, which the house painter Grouard explains is the color picked for the painting of #92 in 1892.

I have included here our newest recreation of that discussion, for your benefit, so that you may be most informed before you commit to 'mustard,' which I admit, may be a reporter’s fantasy!

The trial info is from me, the document compiled of info from Rebello is from Sherry, and the color info is from our member Susan Magliaro.
This is just for your information.

I’d also like to take this chance to thank you All for such a wonderful House experience as we had on our October visit! You all were very gracious and talented people!
Thanks again!
Sincerely,
Kat Koorey
Asst. Editor of The Hatchet, On-line Magazine devoted to Lizzie Borden studies."

Great letter Kat !


Tracy...

I do hope that the new owner doesn't accidentally get the new color paint all over her dress!

I hope they take suggestions from axperts like Len Rebello or/and Bill Pavao.

Thanks for writing that letter, Kat! Hopefully you get a response after all of your and Sherry's work.

Thanks for that 1850 color!
That was a wonderful find!!

You're welcome, tweren't nothing. I was just hoping to solidify what the Victorian idea of the color Drab was. Seeing what went into making that color, I can see Lizzie wanting the color tweaked one way or the other by adding more Venetian red or burnt umber.

I can't see your attacments, Susan.
They are the dreaded little white & red boxes with an X...

If they steamed back generations of paint would any of the original colour from 1892 (however small) be visible? I didn't realise that the press building took up so much space, thanks Mark for the link, hope it's all done and dusted before I get there!

Sorry, Kat, they're just small color samples of Venetian red and burnt umber oil paints from Daniel Smith. I don't know if this will work as a link to get to the page where all the oil colors are?

http://www.danielsmith.com/categories/paint/oilcolor


Jamfaws, I thought that would be great too if they did a color analysis of the house to see if they could find the original color. My brother told me (hes a house painter by trade) that oil paint for houses "yellows" as it ages, so, the original color of the house, if found, would be comprimised by that.

Thanks I got it now.

Len mentioned that they should strip back the years of paint to find the original, if they really want proof. I think that's the best idea so far!

Here is a photo of (#92 Second Street) #230 Second Street- The Leary Press, from the tax roles, 2004. Look at the plan/drawing and see how the Press attaches around the Boden House like a parasite! It's huge!
It also says Year Built- 1940. I think that is circa 1940.

pleaseclickonpic

Going South up the hill of Second Street, here is #348, from the tax roles.

pleaseclickonpic

In a former life I refinished upright pianos from Lizzie's era and before. We used to take layers of paint off to get to the original finish. The original shade would undoubtedly be compromised some, but I think you could tell if it was reddish brown or khaki green. Seems it would be worth looking at.

--Lyddie

Regarding the color of the house on August 4, 1892, I found this in Rebello, page 33:

"It's a two-story and a half house, long and narrow, and stands almost on the street. Painted a modest slate, it is not liable to attract attention except perhaps for the wisteria and woodbine which climb about the front door, which is approached by a short flight of stairs." Boston Daily Globe, Friday, August 5, 1892: 4.

I presume a "modest" slate would be a light colored gray.

I looked at blooms of wisteria and they are quite large. Is the flower in bloom in August? I can find no other source saying there was wisteria around the Borden door. Nor woodbine.

Wisteria are long gone by August in this area.

Sherry included the "modest slate" in her document to me, but I edited it (and a bit more from Rebello as to the interior shutters) as being too confusing on the topic when the weight of evidence was for drab.

However, French Street suffered the same kind of color scheme I think, once Lizzie got her paint brushes out?

remember also in 1892 there were 2 large trees
(maple?) directly in front of the house.

I remember reading that Lizzie and Emma held the deed to 92 2nd street, and that the B&B wasn't opened until 96. What did happen with the house after the murders? Did the girls keep the deed and rent the property or leave it vacant? When did people finally move in etc? History anyone??

The answers will be in your new book, pages 34 and 35.
Also the girls sold the house in July, 1918 (pg. 307).
Have fun!!

(The info will be under houses in the index).

Kat @ Sat Dec 04, 2004 8:52 pm wrote:The answers will be in your new book, pages 34 and 35.
Also the girls sold the house in July, 1918 (pg. 307).
Have fun!!

(The info will be under houses in the index).

I love this post.... It is like one of those commercial breaks during the primetime movie..

"ESCAPED MURDERER ON THE LOOSE! STAY TUNED TO THIS STATION FOR NEWS AT 11!"

Lee-ann, of the Borden B&B, acknowledged receipt of our letter with the house color information. She said it would "come in handy" when they were finally ready to paint.
Apparently it might be another month before "demolition."

(Just reading that word in context of the HOUSE gives me the whim-whams! But of course, it refers to taking down the Leary Press...)

She wishes us a Happy Holiday!

Thanks for keeping us posted, Kat, good to know that shes open to our info.

The front of the print shop (facing Second street and going straight back to where the Crowe barn stood) was built in the 1920's. I found a picture with the 'print shop' and the barn still standing. The rear of the building was added on by John Mcginn in the late 1940's. So, including the house, you are actually looking at 3 seperate buildings that have become one.

Thanks Lee-ann!

Lee-ann...think the renovations will be done by June ?


Tracy...

We've started on the barn! The foundation was poured this week.

Is that where the Starbucks is going?

Did the Starbucks deal go through ?


Tracy...

Lee-ann @ Fri Sep 09, 2005 8:59 pm wrote:We've started on the barn! The foundation was poured this week.

Hooray, that's great news, Lee-ann! A round of applause is due.


I'll be up to look for lead sinkers when it's done.

I do believe I have a screen that needs fixin'....got anything in that bahn I could use ?


Tracy...

I love the idea of just rolling out of bed in the morning and have a caramel machiato handed to me....but sadly.....no Starbucks.