Lizzie Borden Society Forum

Good Morning Folks,

I am Andrew Jackson Borden. I was born in the prominent Borden family. Identity of "the Borden" stuck with us from the day we were born to the day we died. Most of us, loved the respect and the social stature that went with it. But I had some self respect and desire to know myself, learn myself and earn a name for myself. To be known not for being a Borden, but to be known for what Andrew Jackson Borden did and made out of his life.

I was surrounded by death throughout my life. Firstly my twin sisters Charlotte and Lurana passed in the 1820s at a very young age; my mother Phebe passed in 1853 and then my brother George in 1867. In my earlier days, I was trained to be a carpenter; and I turned out to be a good one. I became an undertaker, making coffins, or making money off the dead as they said. It wasn't a job which I got respected for; especially by my cousins who lived up on the hill in their fancy homes. But it was a good business. Unlike carpentry, it does not take time to make a coffin, people are not finicky about it's finishing, nor any designs or artistic work over it. I made more money than my fellow carpenters did. It wasn't easy, but I learnt the art of making a $1.00 off 80 cents.

Soon I got married to Sarah. She was a good seamstress and we started a family.We had 3 kids, Emma, Alice and Lizzie. We lost Alice and then Sarah to the disease of the spine. With two young daughters, a business which turned from being just an undertaker to being a real estate owner, I had plenty on my plate. I met a spinster Abby. She came across as a gentle woman who can take care of my kids and my home. I married her soon enough. Difficulties however, remained on my path way. With the civil war breaking out, everything was not as it used to be. I worked hard to put bread on our table, saved every penny to be able to afford a house. A house I can call my own on the second street.

The house brought me fortune. Fall river boomed in the industrial age to become one of the prominent places in the world for textile industry. Real estate boomed as people hoarded the town. My pennies saved, helped me buy properties which generated me cash flow returns to grow my business further. A penny goes a long way as they say. to make a dollar you need many pennies.

My home life at the same time was not turning out to be as I wanted. Emma hated Abby and she was protective of Lizzie. Emma was ruining herself over it. I could see Lizzie did not hate Abby. Abby once gave Lizzie a silver cup. Lizzie loved it. She called her Mother. Emma did not like it and decided to have Lizzie back on her side. Emma in her 20's did not realize that she is ruining herself over it. Emma doesn't want to court a man, she doesn't want to get married, she is obsessed with my dear Lizzie.

I turned 60 now. Fortunately enough to live longer than many of my own. Emma is old enough to remain a spinster for life. It boils my blood. A waste of life. She does nothing. And I am afraid that she might make Lizzie one of her own. I did not expect to have two beautiful daughters turning into spinsters, and have a cold relationship with my wife. They can't do nothing.

If I did die, they would spend my money and ruin all that I made of myself. But I am getting old. I can't keep it all to myself. It should be a good idea to hand over some of my property and assets to my daughters and my wife. They will get some money off it and learn to live with cash flows and rents than trying to sell off the assets. Maybe I should buy a home up the hill. But it will be a long walk to the businesses I look after. My legs aren't what they used to be. And the horse buggy is just a waste of money.

Today, was a sad day in my life. I had a robbery take place at my home. In broad daylight in presence of my daughters and the maid. The cops got no clue. I figured out that it must be one of my own daughters. Bridget, won't take a risk and be here. She got more to lose than to make off it. Emma has no needs, but she might do that for Lizzie. Or Lizzie might do it herself. She can't live off what she gets. She wants more, like her cousins up on the hill and on the ship. She can ask for it or take it, not steal it. I will lock my doors and put the key on the mantle. As anyone who takes it will be noticed.

I turned 70 this year. I don't know how long will I live. I should make a will. I should take some advice from my friend John Morse before I do it. Maybe I should hand over the Swansea farm property to Abby too. I had a good discussion last night with John. It gives me more clarity. Emma has gone to Fair haven, and it would be appropriate to talk to the family about it once she gets back.

It is August 4, 1892. What a hot summer day! It feels worse with the stomach sickness. I should go back home to rest for a bit before dinner. As I talked to the front door, it seems as if someone locked it up tight. Thanks to Bridget for opening it up. I should take this package to the safe and put it inside my safe before taking a nap. I came downstairs to rest on the couch. Falling asleep.....................

My life has ended. In a way, I never thought it to be. I do not know who did this to me. And I discover it wasn't just me. But also my wife Abby. People think of me to be a shrewd business man who argued to save pennies. But it is the pennies that turned to dollars which got me killed.

Think of me with empathy,

I am a man who lost many of his family all through his life,
I am a man whose life was stained by war,
I am a man who worked hard to make something of my life,
I am a man whose daughters hated my wife,
I am a man with daughters who decided to remain spinsters,
I am a man with daughters who do nothing and spend a life unproductively,

And I am a man who may have been killed by his very own daughter.

Wow! That's really beautiful, curiousmind. It is so appropriate with the fourth of August soon to be here. I agree with all the points here and so love the humanizing of Andrew. These things are always about the humanity involved.

Yes, Curiousmind, a lovely celebratory piece! Poor Andrew. He was born into the poor relation slot of the prominent Borden family but was definitely a self-made man! The problem of his last years was twofold. Although he did have his moments of generosity, on the whole he was frugal. He was ineffectual in dealing with the problem of his daughters' loathing of their stepmother, his wife, though no doubt he tried. His end, (and his wife's) was truly horrific and he didn't deserve it.

Thanks Irina and Curryong!

I believe people have painted Andrew in a very bad light. People have definitely blamed him for his frugality for sure. I work in the finance world and with small businessmen, I can tell you that most of them would care and fight for every penny. Andrew was no exception to the rule.

Andrew also, seemed to be a very shrewd investor. In financial terms, he know what are assets and what are liabilities. He loved his assets and disdained liabilities. Again, in financial terms, a house is always a liability (you never earn a dime from it, but it comes with lots of additional expense) and a buggy like a car is a big liability (no wonder he preferred being close to his businesses). I think he implemented these principals a bit too much in his family life; however, in my eyes he was a shrewd investor.

Given his passion and eye for great investing; I can perceive him as someone who classifies even humans as good investments and bad ones. I won't be surprised if he disliked those like Emma and Lizzie, who were totally unproductive and made no good use of their lives. At the same time, he valued his relationship with his first wife's brother (that is rare to be in touch with your ex-wife's brother) for all Mr. Morse stood for.

Another thing that strikes me about Andrew is that probably he was man who did let his actions speak louder than his words. He doesn't confront people to point fingers at them. But indirectly communicates to them in saying that "Hey, I know you did it. You may not tell me. But I know you did it." I have based this from his gesture to keep the key on the mantle, than confronting his daughters on the robbery. Maybe continuing to live in a modest house was a way of him communicating to his girls that " You want to live a better life, go out there and earn a bread for yourself". However, as we know, that plan definitely did not work out.

Two of my husbands were MBAs. I too understand the business world. I grew up living off the land in Idaho. My family was not poor but we were thrifty. I still am and have moved back to Idaho to continue where I started. The sensationalism of the Borden case tended to lead to dehumanization of everyone involved. I like Mrs. Churchill's comment that she had seen Andrew leave the house that morning and, "he looked so nice". That says a lot when it comes from the next door neighbor.

Curiousmind2014 wrote:Thanks Irina and Curryong!

I believe people have painted Andrew in a very bad light. People have definitely blamed him for his frugality for sure. I work in the finance world and with small businessmen, I can tell you that most of them would care and fight for every penny. Andrew was no exception to the rule.

Andrew also, seemed to be a very shrewd investor. In financial terms, he know what are assets and what are liabilities. He loved his assets and disdained liabilities. Again, in financial terms, a house is always a liability (you never earn a dime from it, but it comes with lots of additional expense) and a buggy like a car is a big liability (no wonder he preferred being close to his businesses). I think he implemented these principals a bit too much in his family life; however, in my eyes he was a shrewd investor.

Given his passion and eye for great investing; I can perceive him as someone who classifies even humans as good investments and bad ones. I won't be surprised if he disliked those like Emma and Lizzie, who were totally unproductive and made no good use of their lives. At the same time, he valued his relationship with his first wife's brother (that is rare to be in touch with your ex-wife's brother) for all Mr. Morse stood for.

Another thing that strikes me about Andrew is that probably he was man who did let his actions speak louder than his words. He doesn't confront people to point fingers at them. But indirectly communicates to them in saying that "Hey, I know you did it. You may not tell me. But I know you did it." I have based this from his gesture to keep the key on the mantle, than confronting his daughters on the robbery. Maybe continuing to live in a modest house was a way of him communicating to his girls that " You want to live a better life, go out there and earn a bread for yourself". However, as we know, that plan definitely did not work out.

When your wife and mother of your children dies, keeping in touch with a brother-in-law is more likely than if they had divorced. Back then, being a married woman was a dangerous occupation. 1892 isn't that far past the War Between the States where surgeons spread more infection than cure. Men commonly survived two or three wives,and connections often remained somewhat intact. I do think he and John Morse were cut from the same cloth (as were many successful men of that era) which contributed to their camaraderie.

My husband is an also MBA (lots of 'em these days except he's 66) and he would totally agree that investments should make money. Houses can make (or lose!) money when sold...as could a good horse. But a new car majorly depreciates the moment it's driven off the lot. Plus a new car doesn't give birth to a baby car every spring... I agree Andrew was a shrewd investor but rumors that he switched cheap caskets for expensive and raised the rent whenever a tenant got a raise make me less impressed. He was a self-made man, and that's admirable. When it's at the expense of those less fortunate, then maybe not so much.

For sure, Andrew looked a lot better in retrospect than men like Henry Clay Frick, et al, of the South Fork Fishing and Hunting Club, whose disregard for human suffering caused the deaths of thousands. Compared to them he was a pussycat. And a pauper. The dominance of pure capitalism between 1865-1920 is unmatched by any other country at any other time, ever. IMO.

There is a human side to every person, no matter bad or good they look in public. (Here's where I need to resist the temptation to say even Hitler loved his dog.) Andrew was a man of his times. So was my father. He and his six siblings came to age during the Great Depression, and he saved some of everything he earned for all the years of his life. No matter how little or how much we had, he always saved. And he watched for waste and careless spending.

Like Andrew, my Dad never wanted to be poor again. And like Andrew, he wasn't.

Hey Debbie! Thanks for your feedback!

I think I agree with you about Andrew's relationship with his brother in law in case of the death of his wife than a divorce scenario. It would have brought them closer. However, as you stated, they were cut from the same cloth which contributed to their camaraderie more than anything else. I also agree he was a man of his times wherein a family structure was more segregated based on gender and kids shared a very formal relationship with their parents.

I have not written this piece to show respect or adore him for all the success he had in his life and to cover up his inability to make a family work. In my opinion, I find that many who follow this case have not tried to empathize with Andrew. He is many a times portrayed as someone who was the catalyst, instigator, and in some cases a molester which caused the sisters to behave and act in a way they did. Definitely all of this can be true, but most likely not in my opinion. From my limited experience, men of post-victorian (till WW2) and victorian era used to be bound by discipline, societal rules, and carried a trait of not sharing any emotions with their dear ones in most cases. Correct me if I am wrong.

I believe the problem in that household was Emma. I wish someone can shed some light on her relationship with her birth mom Sarah Morse. It seems like Emma had a strong bond with her mom. Her mom, probably in all sanity made Emma aware of her extended responsibilities in regards to the house and specifically Lizzie while on her death bed. Arrival of Abby in that household was looked upon by Emma as disrespect to her mom's wishes and a desire of Andrew to move on with his life after Sarah. Emma ruined her own life to fulfill the desire of her mom, spoiled her relationship with her step mom to who she always addressed as Abby; not mother or even Mrs. Borden; and she goes on to make sure Lizzie hates Abby's presence as much as she does. In turn, she tailored Lizzie to be ruined as much as she was; ending up being a spinster. In their lives after the murder, I have read of Lizzie remembering her father while talking to her friends, and visiting his grave on a regularly basis. Also, she has allocated a part of her wealth towards perpetual maintenance of her dad's grave. We don't know much of Emma, however Emma does not display any such emotions for her father in stories or in her will from what I have read. Based on the newspaper articles (I take them with a grain of salt as you do) that I have read since the day of murder to August 10th; Emma seems to be extremely composed during the funeral proceedings whereas Lizzie is having trouble keeping herself calm and composed. I still want to believe Lizzie was involved in the murder; however I don't think she was present in those specific rooms when it took place.

PS: Investments: I am 30 and I definitely have less of experience than your husband does, or you do with investments. However, from what I understand, any investment has to be analyzed terms of cash-flows, which are not limited to buying and selling prices. In case of a house, cash outflows are not limited to buying the house but are expanded to yearly property taxes, interest payments (in usual times, total payments are 2.5 times the price of the property), lawn and property care, home insurance, fire insurances and so on. In terms of a horse buggy, one should take into consideration the expense to set up a barn, horse food, medical expenses, a chauffeur, maintenance of the buggy etc. Good investors define attractive investments to be the ones that generate more of cash inflows than outflows. In my opinion, that is the reason why Andrew preferred investment in properties for monthly rents and stock for their dividends and appreciation. Please correct me if I am wrong. I would love to learn from you or your husband.

I am sure you are correct with regard to Andrew's preferences for investment. After all he took a pittance and turned it into a fortune...what converts into something like $12,000,000 in today's money. Although we could argue whether today's money is worth the paper it's printed on....

Of course Andrew may have paid for this success with his life and Abby's. IF Lizzie was complicit in their deaths, it's not unreasonable to think the Borden's might have lived to be 90 and 85 had he remained a man of limited means...or to put it another way, had his lifestyle reflected his net worth. As I've observed before, Emma took Andrew's money to defend Lizzie (Robinson alone got $25,000 in legal fees with the total cost being close to $50,000...is this right, Curryong?) for his murder. Did he work a lifetime to pay an exorbitant price (far more than modern plumbing, electricity and phone at the house on Second Street....or even a house on The Hill...would have cost) to exonerate the person who took a hatchet to his face.

There's a sense of black humor in this.

Cash flow cannot measure quality of life, the pleasure derived from the investment made, the pleasure derived from the money earned and/or spent to make life enjoyable. Everyone has to live someplace. It's personal choice whether a person chooses to live in a cardboard box under a bridge and have a zillion dollars in the bank or spend every dime on an ostentatious home with all the trappings and have nothing in the bank. Everyone has to travel somehow. The only difference between buggies and cars is that cars do not reproduce...otherwise it's either a garage or a barn, hay or gasoline, the vet or the mechanic, the glue factory or junkyard. My youngest child is disabled; we purchased a house for her in a small town where everything she needs is accessible on foot. Feet are super cheap but they, too, can wear out.

My husband and I are firm believers in finding a place midway on the continuum with regard to almost everything. ALMOST everything.

Times do change. Possum and I have had the day trader discussion in the past, so I won't go there. Suffice to say the very best investment for us has been that which produces income every year, never loses its value due to wearing out, will never be replaced with something bigger or better, and of which there will always be a limited supply. I can think of only one investment that meets that criteria... ...and it's not rental properties, stocks or bonds.

I do totally agree with you, Curious, that Andrew has been stereotyped. So have Abby, Emma, Lizzie and Uncle John. Words on a page, even those most descriptive, must always fail to adequately convey the uniqueness and complexity of the individual.

Curiousmind2014 wrote:I wish someone can shed some light on her relationship with her birth mom Sarah Morse. It seems like Emma had a strong bond with her mom. Her mom, probably in all sanity made Emma aware of her extended responsibilities in regards to the house and specifically Lizzie while on her death bed.

I've seen three death bed requests in my life, and every single one of them made the survivors miserable and, in one case, ruined a life.

I am thrifty...I love my mother-in-law, but she tends to tease me about it. She pokes fun when I say I saved money on something, she laughs when I tell her about shopping around. I know she thinks I am a "miser" but I spend on frivolous things, we go out to dinner, and her daughter/my wife wants for nothing. Funny thing is my wife and I are on our way to early retirement in a few years, and my mother-in-law barely gets by.

I also think Andrew has had a bad rap. His thriftiness kept his daughters from having to go to work their entire lives. Some people feel the need to justify his murder by suggesting that he molested his kids, was mean to animals, and was a horrible miser. There is no evidence for any of these claims, but the available facts can be manipulated to 'back-up' any of those claims. People sometimes want "Karma" to balance and figure if someone died, they deserved it. I disagree. Bad things happen to good people sometimes.

PossumPie wrote:I am thrifty...I love my mother-in-law, but she tends to tease me about it. She pokes fun when I say I saved money on something, she laughs when I tell her about shopping around. I know she thinks I am a "miser" but I spend on frivolous things, we go out to dinner, and her daughter/my wife wants for nothing. Funny thing is my wife and I are on our way to early retirement in a few years, and my mother-in-law barely gets by.

I also think Andrew has had a bad rap. His thriftiness kept his daughters from having to go to work their entire lives. Some people feel the need to justify his murder by suggesting that he molested his kids, was mean to animals, and was a horrible miser. There is no evidence for any of these claims, but the available facts can be manipulated to 'back-up' any of those claims. People sometimes want "Karma" to balance and figure if someone died, they deserved it. I disagree. Bad things happen to good people sometimes.

Finding a reason for their deaths (or creating one) brings a sense of order to unpredictable chaos of living...and dying.