Lizzie Borden Society Forum

A Recent ballad. Pretty well sung, I suppose. Love the raggedy Anne doll on the bed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvDVdboO5Uc

And the tatts! Nice to hear from you, mbhenty! She did sing it well, and I enjoyed it! I wonder what Lizzie would make of her fame (or infamy) 122 years later, so much so that singers are paying tributes?

Tell me there isn't a sexual component to those murders....love the steampunk bustiers.

Yes, Curryong:

The girl has a very raw and immature singing voice, but she can sing. She could have enhanced the background / stage a little. As many may know, I am one who studies backgrounds and the rag doll on the bed was a hoot, though some of what goes on on Utube in reference to Lizze is hardly a tribute. But, I suppose you can see it that way. But exercising what knowledge I have about Lizzie Borden, I'm sure she would have been appalled and a lawsuit would soon follow had she seen it.

Yes debbiedioblo:

You have heard the aphorism that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Please forgive me, for I am not making any reference to you but one in general, but in many cases Sex is in the heart of the provocative. In the case of this video the sexual approach is part of the gothic image and not a direct reference to Lizzie's partiality. I once went out with a girl that saw everything from a sexual prospective. Everything from grave obelisks to popsicles. And don't get me wrong. She wasn't that kind of girl. She just saw the world through a provocative kaleidoscope. Never did get to first base with that gal!

There is a courtroom scene in this video that looks authentic but I have never seen it before. Is it real or photo shopped?

mbhenty wrote:


Yes debbiedioblo:

You have heard the aphorism that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Please forgive me, for I am not making any reference to you but one in general, but in many cases Sex is in the heart of the provocative. In the case of this video the sexual approach is part of the gothic image and not a direct reference to Lizzie's partiality. I once went out with a girl that saw everything from a sexual prospective. Everything from grave obelisks to popsicles. And don't get me wrong. She wasn't that kind of girl. She just saw the world through a provocative kaleidoscope. Never did get to first base with that gal!

No apology necessary. Sex is the only and ultimate denial of death.

Yes Irina:

The court room scene you see in that little clip she took from the movie, The Legend of Lizzie Borden. You can see Elizabeth Montgomery way over to the right in the shot.

Also a couple of other things.

The portrait of Andrew Borden was one discovered for the first time by Stefnai Koorey. The museum that had it had no idea who he was. Also discovered that day was a portrait of his first wife, Sarah. The photo you see of the portrait in the video of Andrew Borden is mine. I took that photo. She must have picked it off somewhere on the net. Also the photo you see towards the end of the Newspapers. That was also composed and taken by me. If you look closely you will see that it looks like one paper but it is in fact two papers made to look like one with a Headline about Lizzie. I took that photo for Mondo.

Interesting tidbits of information, MB. I had to go back and watch the video again!

Exactly, twins! So did I!

About the photo used in the gothic girl's video.


I looked for that exact photo from my photo file but I no longer have it.

I delete a photo if I am not happy with it, or if it encompasses an error or mistake. And if you were to look at that specific photo you can see the camera flash in the glass. I would not keep it. But I passed all the photos to Stefani who keeps everyone of them, so that exact photo should be in her file and apparently she has used it somewhere.

But I have a load of others from that day. Here are a couple. One photo that was discovered along with the Bordens was one of an older lady. We did some research but have yet to identify her. There is a good chance she is a relative since she was part of the same batch and believed to have been donated at the same time. She could be someone from the Gardner Family, but we are not sure. Really...we have no clue. But please don't quote me on that. I have forgotten what we concluded, and would need to speak to Stefani as to furnish any additional pertinent information about that specific image.

Wonderful image of Sarah, happy looking, content, and pretty.

Closeup of Lizzie" Mama, Sarah.

At this same little Swansea museum were some books that once belong to Emma Borden.

Below is a copy, called The Ruin Abbey's of Scotland.

This copy was signed by Emma.

Cool!

Those look good and the pictures look fantastic!

Thanks MysteryR:

Here a couple more which were signed, including vol.1 of Lorna Doone. (Vol.1 only. Vol. 2 was missing for some reason) Published in 1869, everyone of age and who read Lorna Doone must have enjoyed Richard Blackmore's common plot.

mbhenty wrote:


Thanks MysteryR:

Here a couple more which were signed, including vol.1 of Lorna Doone. (Vol.1 only. Vol. 2 was missing for some reason) Published in 1869, everyone of age and who read Lorna Doone must have enjoyed Richard Blackmore's common plot.

Lorna Doone sounds familiar but I'm not sure I read it. I've not heard of Richard Blackmore.

Here's one last photo of Emma's books. This called Hillards Sixth Reader. If I'm not mistake, I think its the leather book in the post above, and is signed by Emma.

Interestingly, there's a small calendar tipped into the book, dated 1902.

Cool!

Blackmore was an English writer and poet. Except for Lorna Doone, most of his work has been forgotten. It's the only title I know. He was famous in his day and right up there with Charles Dickens. Lorna Doone has gone through hundreds of editions and publishers over the last almost 150 years. While Dickens is still being published, today no one knows who Blackmore is.

For everyone's information or those who are not aware. Lorna Doone has been made into many movies and mini series. The last movie was made in the UK and aired in 2000. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0259786/?ref_=nv_sr_1

The british did another one in 1990

And there has been a couple of mini series, one in the 70s and 60s.

The first movie version was back in 1912 or something. Very popular title in the UK. But very little known here.

mbhenty wrote:



Here's one last photo of Emma's books. This called Hillards Sixth Reader. If I'm not mistake, I think its the leather book in the post above, and is signed by Emma.

Interestingly, there's a small calendar tipped into the book, dated 1902.

Cool!

I would love to look at that!

This is fascinating stuff, mb. I remember reading Lorna Doone and another of Blackmore's books on the west country as a child. As you've said, Lorna Doone was extremely popular throughout the English speaking world when Lizzie and Emma were young women and for many years afterwards. I'll bet they had Blackmore's novels at Maplecroft.

Lizzie resembles Sarah, I think, though not in colouring.

Yes Curyong:

I bet that there was a copy of Lorna Doone on Lizzie's shelf, though, it probably belong to sister Emma. The calendar in the book is dated 1902. If that is in fact Emma's little calendar, that would mean that that copy sat on the shelf at Maplecorft, since Emma was still living there.

Today I hear that most of Lizzie's library sits in one' "private" library, a couple hundred of them, left to this family by Lizzie.

Where Emma usually signed her full name, Lizzie would write in L.A.B.

There is a group of Lizzie's books at the fall river Historical Society, and some at 92 second street. Also there are 5 books from Lizzie's library sitting on my shelf at home. Initialed by Lizzie herself. One of them has the little "B" seal in it....which makes it strange and I'll tell you why.

Lizzie's books sit on my shelf in 2014. In the 1920s they sat just about 80 feet away from where they sit today, at Maplecroft. Lizzie use to own my building, thus, I like to think that the books have come home....somewhat! Cool!

Oh, mb, that is so exciting! So you are in Fall River, near Maplecroft! And you have some of Lizzie's books? She was such a keen reader, and I'm sure had all the popular novels, biographies etc of the day. Did Lizzie leave the bulk of her books to Grace Howe or Helen Leighton? I don't believe they were itemised in her will and probably some got sold privately following her death.

Do you happen to have a close up of Abby in her youth?

There's that photo of her sitting wearing an 1860's crinoline and lace sleeves. It seems to have been taken at about the time she married Andrew. I don't know whether you could call that overly-youthful or a close-up, though. I haven't ever seen any photos of a really young Abby.

I have it through a reliable source that the bulk of Lizzie's books sits in one large private Library. Believe me, this person, who's name I will not mention, knows what he/she is talking about. When I tapped their minds for more, all I received was a smile and a shake of the head. Thus I rather not mention her/his name.

I purchased mine from ebay. They came from Ernest Terry's grand daughter. One of the books I have was mentioned in Parallel Lives, called, Our Fourfooted Friends and How We Treat Them, by Mrs Huntington Smith, and was inscribed to Lizzie by Mrs. Huntington.

And other than the one photo mentioned above of Abby Borden, I have never seen or heard of another, better image.

Very intriguing! Thanks, mb! Very appropriate that her authoress friend should give Lizzie a book featuring horses and dogs. Her love of animals was legendary. Mrs Smith and her husband were founders of the Boston Animal Rescue League weren't they, so there was that connection?

Yes, very astute Curryong:

Mrs. Smith was probably responsible for rallying Lizzie behind the cause of animals and in turn leave a small fortune to the fall river Animal Rescue League.

Lizzie, the person we have heard that liked swinging cats by the tail.

The cause was mostly attributed to Mrs. Smith. Not sure if her husband had anything to do with it. He was a publisher. Sure he helped. In many cases husbands are good for that, in others good for nothing.

Her name was Anna Harris, and I think she wrote books under that name. Anna Harris.

Now, here's another can of beetles.

It's amazing how no one asks why, and why not, that is to say, if I were a women there would be no way that I would give up my individuality, who I am, my family name, my identity and my person to a man or woman.

To change my family name and take that of another person. Why women change their family name to take that of some stranger they met always puzzled me. If I were a woman and I got married, perhaps I would stick my husband's name in the middle somewhere, if he were a good boy, but there is no way I would give up my identity in subordinate and subservient fashion. Don't care how influential my husband was/is. Why would woman accept such a tradition?

I had a friend who was married five times. She has had her named changed 5 times. She's like a Boat. Depends on who own's her. Just don't understand that.

It's amazing how no one asks why, and why not, that is to say, if I were a women there would be no way that I would give up my individuality, who I am, my family name, my identity and my person to a man or woman.

Why would woman accept such a tradition?

I did it because his last name is easier to pronounce than my maiden name was. However, it's been mispronounced once that I know of. I do have relatives (females) that if they divorce, they reclaim their maiden name and don't change it again, regardless if they marry again.

I changed my name on marriage because I didn't particularly like being asked each time I had to give my name to strangers " Yes, but what's your surname?" (My maiden name was Hannah, often mistaken for a girl's first name.)

I think many women take their husband's name both because of tradition and because of children. Men generally want their children to have their family name. I had a friend who married a widower with a small son. She is a doctor and kept her maiden name for professional reasons.

When she had her two children their surnames were double-barreled, (hers then his.) In her non- professional life it caused endless confusion, passports, travelling, registering the children for different things, so much so that when her little boy began school and wanted to have the same last name as his older, adored, half-brother, my friend just surrendered. She keeps her maiden name for professional purposes but otherwise she, and her children, have her husband's name.

Curryong wrote:I changed my name on marriage because I didn't particularly like being asked each time I had to give my name to strangers " Yes, but what's your surname?" (My maiden name was Hannah, often mistaken for a girl's first name.)

I think many women take their husband's name both because of tradition and because of children. Men generally want their children to have their family name. I had a friend who married a widower with a small son. She is a doctor and kept her maiden name for professional reasons.

When she had her two children their surnames were double-barreled, (hers then his.) In her non- professional life it caused endless confusion, passports, travelling, registering the children for different things, so much so that when her little boy began school and wanted to have the same last name as his older, adored, half-brother, my friend just surrendered. She keeps her maiden name for professional purposes but otherwise she, and her children, have her husband's name.

But Hannah is a girl's first name Yes, it is also tradition and for children. I can't image the confusion your friend must have felt- I can understand her wanting to keep her name because she's a doctor but I can also understand the little boy wanting the same name as everyone else.

To me a name is something on an envelope, or at the head of an email these days. Or on a headstone. The person I am is totally independent from all that stuff...although I'm glad my name isn't Ima Hogg.

edit one typo

hI glad my name isn't Ima Hogg.[/quote]

Yes, I'm glad for both of you that it isn't! And for me! I would feel very sorry for you!

On the completely different subject of reading and writing I was on another forum the other day and one of the posters, a teacher, said that cursive script is no longer being taught to pupils in schools in the US, as it is regarded as being useless. Everything is produced on computers. God help historians of the future. No long handwritten letters, no diaries to pore over, just bits of emails and brief printed notes.

Curryong wrote:. God help historians of the future. No long handwritten letters, no diaries to pore over, just bits of emails and brief printed notes.

Yes, they probably won't find us fascinating at all.

MysteryReader wrote:

Curryong wrote:. God help historians of the future. No long handwritten letters, no diaries to pore over, just bits of emails and brief printed notes.

Yes, they probably won't find us fascinating at all.

We are all intrigued with the Borden case, and it has been 122 years after the murders. Unless a 'smoking gun', is found in someone's attic, I highly doubt this case will ever be solved. So, who knows, the future historians will most likely be just as fascinated with this case as we are. I'm sure future technology will take them to places we can only dream about.

True, Twinsrwe! I just meant that future historians probably wouldn't find us fascinating at all since handwritten letters, notes, and journals seem to fall by the wayside and electronics have taken over.

I was pretty sure that is what you meant; I was just adding my two cents worth to your thoughts.

twinsrwe wrote:I was pretty sure that is what you meant; I was just adding my two cents worth onto your thoughts.