Lizzie Borden Society Forum

In my last post, maybe about 3 months ago, I had mentioned a theory of an intruder (No.1 contender: Emma) who came in and escaped before Lizzie alarmed Bridget about it. I don't know if she went on a horse carriage, or as some speculate, during the civil war, there was a tunnel that went from the Borden home to Bowen house, which facilitated the escape.

However, we will stick to Debbie's theory and points for now.

Point 1: I am glad that you have entertained the idea of someone coming overnight/morning (Referring to a horse carriage seen by the house with a flustered man next to it). To me, it definitely explains why Lizzie alarmed Bridget very soon after Andrew's death. It was probably because she knew that the murderer and the weapon were no longer on the Borden house.

Point 2: ]In case of burning down the house, I agree with you that she gave away lots of pointers through conversation with Alice and ironing of handkerchiefs. However, something stopped her from doing so, as she still had an opportunity, unless one has to believe that presence of Bridget stopped her. I would like you to address this.

On my Point 1, even if we had to assume that Lizzie killed Abby and the intruder killed Andrew; Lizzie and her confidante had to have such a great amount of trust and love for each other that they would keep the secret and put their life on the table, if one of those that to be charged for the murders. Lizzie ended up as being charged for the murders. If this theory holds true, Lizzie definitely did a great job of keeping her confidante's identity a secret.

My question to all of us is, who is this person, for whom Lizzie can put her life at stake. I will put down a list of possibilities based on my knowledge of Lizzie and relative state of relationship she shared with people before and after the murders & trial took place.

1. Emma Borden: A rare outing and a mystery

Reasons:

a. Gets her share of wealth. She was made the administrator of the Borden wealth on August 5th, even before the inquest
b. Mother figure to Lizzie, apparently the only person she was close to before and after the murders.
c. Shares the expenses to defend Lizzie during the trial
d. Not verified if she was at the Brownell's on the afternoon of August 4th, 1892. (Do let me know if this was verified. I am not sure if it was.)
e. Supposedly defends Lizzie on the murders in 1913, even after both of them decided not to communicate with each other for the rest of their lives.

Spoilers:

a. Apparently, too far off to commit the murders and flee back to Fairhaven (assuming she was at Fairhaven that afternoon).


2. Bridget Sullivan: Maybe the only person (other than the AJ Borden family) to understand the dynamics of that house.

Reasons:

a. Factually, only person along with Lizzie, present and alive in that house on the day of murders who had the opportunity to commit the murders.
b. Possible exploitation by the employer. (Leads me to believe in the theory that Bridget empathized with the Borden sisters and possibly was impregnated by Andrew. Abby, Emma, Lizzie and Bridget, by force or by will never did bear any kids.)

Spoilers:

a. Apparently no contact after the murders
b. No proof of money being given to Bridget.
c. Even if Lizzie, Emma and Bridget were in the same boat of molestation, Lizzie and Emma probably were like bullies in a female prison; by not able to address her right.


3. John Morse: Unexpected and weird in every way.

Reasons:

a. He would be another name on ancestry.com if we believe he was at the wrong place at the wrong time. Or he was a part of a bigger plan. He definitely was not close to Lizzie, but he was close to Emma (pointer!).
b. Perfect Alibi: Remembers & notices it all, but does not notice people around the house.
c. Pears off the poop: On a serious note, Lizzie mentions the pear tree and its the first place JVM heads to claiming that he did not see people around the house increasing importance of the cellar door entry.
d. Possible benefits if he has to cut off Andrew as one of his business competitors.

Spoilers:

a. No apparent motivation than to help the girls out.
b. No proof of financial gain by sharing of wealth or business gains.


4. David Anthony: Folklore or real?

Reasons:

a. Love makes one do things.
b. Financial gains.

Spoilers (many):

a. If one had to go back to the history books, he apparently owned mills. I wonder if he would commit murders.
b. Love for Lizzie? Umm, other than theories and speculations, do we have any proof of Lizzie dating David before or after the murder. If you commit a murder for someone, one would assume you would stick with them for the rest of their lives.

I want to know everyone's view point on the same.

Hello, Curiousmind, nice to see you posting again! I agree with you that any known conspirator helping Lizzie (or doing the job themselves) has as many points against them as for.

I do think Emma would be the one and only person on this earth for whom Lizzie would stay silent and go to jail. Conversely, I agree, Emma would never have allowed that to happen.

I'll just confine myself to the Dave Anthony theory for the moment, that is, Dave Anthony the phantom lover, as no-one ever saw them together, chatting, walking, or God forbid, kissing, holding hands etc!

I'm afraid the Ruby Cameron theory, which was discussed on the forum a lot in former times, (where David Anthony, deeply in love with Lizzie, lost his temper and killed both Lizzie's parents,) turned out to have more holes than a Swiss cheese.

Shelley, who used to post here, wrote a very good book called Resurrections which featured various people connected with the Borden case and what happened to them later in life. She examined Ruby Cameron's story and pointed out at least nine discrepancies in her story of this 'love affair' and its aftermath. Ruby turned out to be quite a romancer about her own life as well (nursing FDR and knowing Eleanor, having multiple science degrees etc etc.)

Dave came from a wealthy family, that's true. He was however only 23 at the time of the murders and working as a clerk in the family meat company. He might well have been a trust fund recipient later in life as he had lots of leisure, but he certainly didn't own mills at the time of the Borden murders.

I don't believe the David Anthoney story. Think it's pure garbage.

I don't think Morse was involved. His behaviour was odd but it also points toward his innocence.

Like I have said before I feel, perhaps wrongly, that Emma was somewhat sinister. I think she created the poisonous atmosphere against Abby. I think it's possible, barely possible she was involved. There is controversy over the 1913 interview, whether or not Emma actually gave an interview. If she did I find one of her statements to be important and chilling. She said she believed her sister innocent because she had asked her many times over the years if she was guilty and Lizzie had always convinced her she was innocent. This is how I recall the statement which I think is actually simpler. What bothers me is that if Emma said that it shows me she didn't exactly believe in her sister's innocence or there was something about Lizzie that kept Emma wondering over the years. If Emma REALLY believed Lizzie to be innocent she wouldn't have had to ask more than once.

If all that is factual and Emma said that, it would imply that Emma too was innocent.

I don't believe Bridget was guilty. She showed more grief for the death of Abby than many others, or she was more demonstrative in her feelings.

I would like to have asked Dr. Handy a number of questions. His activities on August 4 seem questionable to me. Did he bring someone to Second St.? A friend/visitor for Lizzie? Was he involved in helping Lizzie, re Andrew's inheritance plans? Just how close a friend was Dr. Handy to Lizzie?

I also want to know more about Lizzie's relationship with Dr. Bowen. I don't believe they were involved or lovers or anything like that but I think Bowen was either treating Lizzie for some malady or he was a counselor for her. Before Freud and psychiatry, perhaps Bowen was Lizzie's therapist. I have a feeling that on the occasion Bowen took Lizzie to church, she had had an emotional need for him or for his services earlier in the day.

I do believe there could be someone else we don't know about. I have no idea if it was a relative, lover or friend. The Borden case is like a medium sized jigsaw puzzle with a few strategic pieces missing. You all know I think Lizzie didn't do it, at least not the actual murders. Someone did and I have no idea who it was that Lizzie appeared to be covering for. I truly believe there is a person central to the tragedy of whom we have little or no knowledge. I think the burglary about a year before is part of the puzzle but once again we know very little.

If I start buying books I should get something like 'Parallel Lives' to look at all kinds of peripheral people.

Others can probably speak to this better than me, but I believe Lizzie would have risked being convicted (because she was a woman and nobody wanted to hang a woman), to spare more infamy to her family. For instance if a MALE family member participated or committed the crime for whatever reason, and he was tried and convicted, he would have been hanged, and that would have been a horrific shame on the family.

I also have an idea someone other than Lizzie knew the truth or partial truth. Whoever else may have known, I think understood, knew or believed there were extenuating circumstances, or an excusable reason for the double murder. Many associated dropped Lizzie and Emma after the acquittal. Others didn't. I feel deeply that if Lizzie was a hardboiled, greedy murderess for money, and that was reasonably known or thought among those who had been close to her, that she would have had basically no decent associates beyond her sister after she was acquitted.

Considering this, I think if people believed Lizzie had a mental disease or defect that caused her to commit murder, I believe no one but her sister would have stood by her. Therefore if it was "known" by anyone that Lizzie actually did commit murder, there must have been an overwhelming reason why this was excusable. (I do not agree with Alice's remarks.)

These are some of the circles I work out in my mind. Successful research in my opinion would be finding other names to work with.

Burning the house down over our heads is a feat of pre-cognition that would give Houdini fits if he tried to bust it. Lizzie neatly predicts something terrible happening the day before it happens. Either Lizzie knew something was going to happen (conspirator) or was already in the grip of murderous rage and couldn't help herself by outlining terrible things, it is a massive tell. Lizzie let Alice Russell know something was coming. The odds of Lizzie making such a statement and then a double murder randomly coming to pass the next day are infinitesimal. Lizzie knew - whether by her hand or someone else's, bad things were coming.

The trouble with anyone burning the house down following the crime, and I agree it is an attractive theory, is how close the houses are to each other on Second St. A wisp of smoke rising into the air, the smell of scorching timbers, and the neighbours would be out en-masse, sniffing the air and wondering what was happening, and calling the fire brigade.

It wasn't an era of back yard barbecues or the season for burning off piles of leaves. Neighbours, including Wades stores a little way down, would start getting mighty worried about their own properties once flames appeared.

People would remember the dreadful fire of 1887 which tore through the business district. I read in an early thread somewhere that the Fall River firehouse was reasonably nearby and somebody would be phoning up pronto.

Hey Curryong,

I thought I had replied back to your message. Apparently it does not show up. I am sorry about the delay.

It would be a miracle if this mystery is solved. Maybe Lizzie wrote a secret confession letter and hid it someplace in her Maplecroft home.

I still believe Emma played a bigger role than being projected by Historians and media. She imbibed hatred towards Abby in Lizzie (Unless Abby was a real pest). She was made an administrator of Borden inheritance too soon after the murders. Unless there were specific reasons to hasten up the process.

Lizzie and Bridget definitely had the best opportunity to have murdered Abby & Andrew based on factual evidence. However, Lizzie and Bridget acted too fast and in horror after finding Andrew dead. If Lizzie is believed to have done that, she could have taken her own sweet time to hide the axe/hatchet, hide her clothes (can't see Lizzie roaming naked around the house), cleanse her hair and body, wear a new dress and put her hair and charm in place.

I believe Emma committed the murders, if one has to believe both murders were committed by the same person. As you agreed, Emma would be the only person on this earth for whom Lizzie would stay silent and go to jail. Also, to your point, I agreed Emma would never have allowed that to happen. However, if she was convinced (by her defense team) that making Lizzie a prime suspect meant that the prosecutors are set on a wrong path anyways, she might have allowed that to happen. In my opinion, what messed it up were Lizzie's testimonies. Whether it was her state of mind, or influence of morphine dosage(most likely), the defense team had to deal with a bigger problem than they foresaw.

If Lizzie was not under the morphine dosage, I would like to believe that her answers would have been better scripted and consistent. She may have started off as a prime suspect. However, would have been dismissed easily on lack of evidence just like Bridget was.

Lizzie seemed to have a reputation among friends, of being somewhat depressed. I have known people, usually women, who continually spoke of future misery and disaster. Perhaps everyone has known someone like this. I just throw this out for thought. If Lizzie had a sunny, positive disposition and suddenly forecast horror, to me it would do more to point toward premeditation. If she was predominantly serious, tending toward depression and negativity, I don't put too much on her talk with Alice. It actually makes me want to know what might have been going on, probably specific to her father's life, at that time.

Her terrible answers and explanations could simply reflect the trauma she had experienced. Guilty or innocent the shock must have been overwhelming. If guilty, whatever passion led to the acts would have worn off and she would be left with the horrible realization that she had a terrible mess to clean up; the father she seemed to love was butchered on the sofa, and the stepmother was splattered on the guest room floor.

Contemporary friends said Lizzie would not lie. Actually most people will lie at sometime, but let us assume she was not an accomplished liar. For some reason she said some things that sure sound like lies. Then she couldn't fabricate good enough to explain herself. Again, guilty or innocent, I think this is how it went. If innocent she may have been covering for someone or she blamed herself for not doing something different to prevent the murder of her father.

I certainly think Emma was one of the main sources of tension and unpleasantness in the house. (Another was Andrew with his fixed views.) It was Emma who had filled Lizzie's mind with bitterness, hatred and resentment against Abby ever since Lizzie was a little girl.

My main objection to Emma having anything physically to do with her parents' death is the fact that she was staying in a private home in Fairhaven. In hotels, to a certain extent, the people running them don't care where their guests go. When the police called they would say
"Oh, yes, Miss Borden went out straight after breakfast. One of our guests saw her leave. She was back for lunch at 1pm, though." It would then be up to Emma to explain those missing hours.

In a private home, especially with friends and in those days, it just wouldn't have been possible. Her hosts would have noticed if she had been away for an entire morning and would have asked her where she'd been. It would have been noted and the two Brownells would have innocently told the police she had been out for a whole morning. Nowadays, when people are at work they don't necessarily keep tabs on what their guests do so much. In 1892 that just wasn't so.

It may have been the custom for the three women to have taken a short walk after breakfast or sat and sewed and talked. We just don't know, but it's certain that if Emma had popped out for three or four hours that day it would have been noticed.

Plus, Emma couldn't tele-port herself, like Harry Potter, out of Fairhaven. It was quite a small place. How many nearby livery stables would there have been where she could have hired a horse or horse and buggy?

If Emma left by train wouldn't that have been risky when she returned to Fall River? When she got back how did she smuggle herself into no 92 without being seen by anyone? All it would have needed would have been one person who knew her seeing her near no. 92 and, allied with her being known to have been away from her holiday home that morning, she would have been up for some serious questioning by detectives.

I can well believe that Emma hated Abby so much that she and Lizzie could have hired a man (through Uncle John) to kill her and then their father, but there are just too many difficulties for me to believe that she herself was physically involved.

I don't believe that Lizzie knew that Uncle John was coming home for lunch on that Thursday until she was told by her father. I believe that up to that point she had intended to kill her father when he rested after lunch. Bridget had the afternoon off and would have been out and she herself would indeed have been able to take her sweet time clearing up, making herself clean, perhaps establishing some sort of shopping alibi downtown even, before coming home to 'discover' that intruders had killed her stepmother and her father.

As it was, uncle John's imminent arrival home speeded things up considerably. Bridget would be down to warm up the soup,and mutton before 11:30am and who knew when gabby John would arrive back. It was a piece of luck for Lizzie that her father wasn't feeling too good and decided to lie down and drift off to sleep when he did. It made things a lot easier.