Hello Again!
Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2015 7:39 pm
Hello Again everyone.Its been a long time since I've posted (2004).
My name is Jeffery.
It's great to be back!
My name is Jeffery.
It's great to be back!
A free society devoted to the serious discussion of the Borden murders of 1892, Fall River, & Victorian America
https://lizzieandrewborden.com/lbforum/
You're welcome, Franz. I thought of you when I was reading through those links.Franz wrote:... Thank you twinsrwe for your research of those links. If I recall well, Harry mentioned to me the theory of Jeffery.
mbhenty wrote:![]()
Yepa plot that runs right up your Alley, Franz....or should I say, il too vicolo!
Good girl!twinsrwe wrote:You're welcome, Franz. I thought of you when I was reading through those links.Franz wrote:... Thank you twinsrwe for your research of those links. If I recall well, Harry mentioned to me the theory of Jeffery.
Very good! Uncle John might have been very well an HONEST person.twinsrwe wrote:
ECCENTRIC, BUT HONEST.
1. Yes, I can agree with you for the first point, twinsrwe, it's a vaalid consideration. However, we should remember that Lizzie was acquitted. We don't know what uncle John would have done --- assuming that he was the real guilty --- in the case that Lizzie was found guilty.twinsrwe wrote:If John Morse was involved in a conspiracy to kill Andrew and Abby and he was as honest as his neighbors claimed, then he would not have sat back and allowed his sister's daughter to stand trial for something he was responsible for.
Franz, I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with you. I do not believe there is such a thing as a very noble and moral motive for murdering two innocent people. Andrew owned the Swansea property, and he had every right to do with it as he saw fit. Even if Andrew actually did renege on his dealings with John Morse, he and his wife did not deserve to die.
Anthony and twinsrwe, if a murder occured, why it's author must have acted to gain something only in pecuniary sense? I just can't understand this!Aamartin wrote:The whole conspiracy thing just doesn't sit well with me... A secret of almost any kind, let alone that magnitude can only be kept if the other(s) are dead..... Someone would have slipped up...
Especially pertaining to JVM. He just returned (here) to Iowa and lived out his life with no apparent benefit from the murders? Heck, he even left Lizzie (I think it was) $100!
I love you, my friend!Aamartin wrote:I have considered this case with open, closed, partially open, wide open, partially closed and every mind in between-- and this theory still doesn't ring true to me personally-- that doesn't mean it isn't plausible.
This is true, But I think it depends a lot on what kind of relationship you have with your accomplice(s).Aamartin wrote:The whole conspiracy thing just doesn't sit well with me... A secret of almost any kind, let alone that magnitude can only be kept if the other(s) are dead..... Someone would have slipped up...
Sorry, Franz, but I stand by what I stated.Franz wrote:1. Yes, I can agree with you for the first point, twinsrwe, it's a vaalid consideration. However, we should remember that Lizzie was acquitted. We don't know what uncle John would have done --- assuming that he was the real guilty --- in the case that Lizzie was found guilty.twinsrwe wrote:If John Morse was involved in a conspiracy to kill Andrew and Abby and he was as honest as his neighbors claimed, then he would not have sat back and allowed his sister's daughter to stand trial for something he was responsible for.
Franz, I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with you. I do not believe there is such a thing as a very noble and moral motive for murdering two innocent people. Andrew owned the Swansea property, and he had every right to do with it as he saw fit. Even if Andrew actually did renege on his dealings with John Morse, he and his wife did not deserve to die.
2. Swansea property? Well, we don't know if the killer, whoever he (she) was, killed for money. This is just one conjecture among others.
3. Andrew and Abby were "two innocent people"? I am not so sure as you. They were brutally murdered, and for some reason!
And from all reports JVM returned to Iowa and never visited the girls again!Franz wrote:This is true, But I think it depends a lot on what kind of relationship you have with your accomplice(s).Aamartin wrote:The whole conspiracy thing just doesn't sit well with me... A secret of almost any kind, let alone that magnitude can only be kept if the other(s) are dead..... Someone would have slipped up...
Franz, I did not state anything regarding someone gaining money. I simply asked: What did John Morse gain for his part in this conspiracy? (Did John Morse have Andrew killed for revenge, or so that he could live the rest of his life in peace, or did he kill Andrew just for the fun of it?)Franz wrote:Anthony and twinsrwe, if a murder occured, why it's author must have acted to gain something only in pecuniary sense? I just can't understand this!Aamartin wrote:The whole conspiracy thing just doesn't sit well with me... A secret of almost any kind, let alone that magnitude can only be kept if the other(s) are dead..... Someone would have slipped up...
Especially pertaining to JVM. He just returned (here) to Iowa and lived out his life with no apparent benefit from the murders? Heck, he even left Lizzie (I think it was) $100!
I think that if we really consider the case with an open mind, the "procedure" should be this one: IF --- I say IF --- uncle John were the guilty, he apparently didn't gain nothing of pecuniary with the murder, you see, he returned to Iowa and finished there his exsitence peacefully. So, we should looking for his motive in somewhere else. (Certainloy, this somewhere else is always a conjecure.)
I don't understand well. I never conjectured that uncle John's accomplices were the Borden girls.Aamartin wrote:And from all reports JVM returned to Iowa and never visited the girls again!Franz wrote:This is true, But I think it depends a lot on what kind of relationship you have with your accomplice(s).Aamartin wrote:The whole conspiracy thing just doesn't sit well with me... A secret of almost any kind, let alone that magnitude can only be kept if the other(s) are dead..... Someone would have slipped up...
Apology accepted, Franz.Franz wrote:I am sorry, twinsrwe, I didn't interprete correctly your word "gain". …
You’ve got it!!!Franz wrote:You said: "As far as I know, John Morse, William Davis and George Howe gained absolutely nothing from the murders of Andrew and Abby Borden." Well said: as far as we KNOW, John Morse gained nothing from the murders of Andrew and Abby. But he could have gained something unkonwn to us.
twinsrwe wrote:Apology accepted, Franz.Franz wrote:I am sorry, twinsrwe, I didn't interprete correctly your word "gain". …![]()
You’ve got it!!!Franz wrote:You said: "As far as I know, John Morse, William Davis and George Howe gained absolutely nothing from the murders of Andrew and Abby Borden." Well said: as far as we KNOW, John Morse gained nothing from the murders of Andrew and Abby. But he could have gained something unkonwn to us.Good job!