Lizzie Borden Society Forum

The basis for every locked room mystery is that a) the killer could not have gone in and out without being detected by anyone else and b) the crime scene shows no evidence of how the killer entered and left.

If we look at this theory and how it pertains to the Borden case, we see that an outsider had little to no ability to walk in undetected and leave without someone noticing.
No one reported seeing anyone around the Borden premises that morning (other than the purported messenger boy). Lizzie and Bridget were on the premises the entire time, so one of the two would have had to notice or hear something.

When Abby was murdered, Bridget was washing the windows and having a chat with the Kelley's maid. Lizzie was alone in the house with Abby. Bridget didn't hear or see anything suspicious. Lizzie testified that she was basting tape onto a dress. She was doing this, she was doing that (her testimony changed so much).
When Andrew was murdered Bridget had gone to lay down in her bed in the attic. I think that Bridget told the truth when she said that she had taken a nap. She had been vomiting, risen very early that morning to get the fire started before everyone was up, and she had been working in the heat doing a rather strenuous job. However, again Lizzie was alone on the first floor with Andrew. Lizzie said that she went out to the pear tree and ate a few pears (later she said that she ate them in the loft of the barn) even though she said herself that she had been nauseous. Her testimony in its self had so many flaws.

If we look at the case from the aforementioned perspective, then it looks as if Lizzie was the only person to have had the opportunity to kill both Abby and Andrew. There was no evidence of forced entry (the Borden's kept everything on lock down), so how would an intruder have gotten in? The layout of the house would have been unfamiliar to a stranger.

Thinking about this last night, was what led me to definitively conclude (in my opinion) that Lizzie was the perpetrator of the murders.

Any thoughts are appreciated!

I will look at this again but my first thought is WHY didn't anyone hear anything? Like Bridget? She was only upstairs and should have heard the murder of Andrew.

I wonder, if Andrew was napping, if his murder would have been loud? If he were awake, I'm sure that someone would to have heard something. The act of the hatchet cutting into flesh and bone wouldn't have been particularly loud, I believe. I think that Andrew was unaware that anyone was near him, or he would have struggled which would have led to a disheveled sitting room.

Violette-

That's about right but think of it this way, even if he were asleep, the noise of an axe (or whatever the instrument) hitting and slicing bone and flesh would have made a sound that Bridget should have heard. I don't know how much butchering she had done in the past but it should have sounded familiar to her.

IF Lizzie was outside in the barn, she wouldn't have heard anything going on in the house, unless it was raised voices or yelling.

I have always believed that Lizzie was the sole perpetrator of the murders. At the time Abby was murdered, Lizzie did not have an alibi; she was in the house alone with Abby. At the time Andrew was murdered, Lizzie claimed to have been in the loft of the barn for 15 to 20 minutes looking for lead sinkers so that she could go on a fishing trip she has planned, but then she changed her story that she was in the barn looking for a piece of iron to fix the screen door; Oh, and let’s not forget that during that time period she also ate some pears. The police officers could find no evidence in the loft to substantiate Lizzie's story.

Bridget testified at Lizzie’s trial that her bedroom was located on the third floor of the house, known as the attic. Her room was directly above Mr. Borden’s room, and his room was above the kitchen. Andrew was killed in the sitting room, which is located on the first floor of the house, which means the second floor was between Bridget’s room and the first floor.

Trial Testimony of Bridget Sullivan; questioned by Mr. Moody. Page 195:

Q. You slept in the third story of the house?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. Can you tell us the position of the room that you slept in?
A. Well, it is right over Mr. Borden’s room.

Q. And Mr. Borden’s room is right over the kitchen?
A. Yes, sir.
Bridget testified at Lizzie’s trial that she did not hear any noise, except for the city hall bell striking eleven o’clock. Furthermore, she didn’t think she got drowsy or fell asleep.

Trial Testimony of Bridget Sullivan; questioned by Mr. Moody. Page 238-239:

Q. What did you do then?
A. I went up stairs to my room.

Q. Up to that time, Miss Sullivan, had you seen or heard any other person about the premises except those you have named?
A. No, sir; I don’t remember to hear a sound of anybody else.

Q. What did you do when you got to your bedroom?
A. I went up stairs to my bedroom. When I got up in the bedroom I laid in the bed.

Q. When is the first occasion that you had to notice the time after you got up in your bedroom?
A. I heard the bells outdoors ring, the city hall bell, as I suppose it was, and looked at my clock and it was eleven o’clock, my clock was in the room.

Q. You were lying on the bed at that time?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. Had you become drowsy at all, or anything of that sort?
A. I don’t remember; I know I wasn’t drowsing or sleeping.

Q. Have you a judgment as to how long you were there between the time you reached your bed and the time that the city bell clock struck eleven?
A. Well, I might be there --- of course I can’t tell, I didn’t notice the time when I went to my room, but by my judgment I think I was there three or four minutes.

Q. Did you get drowsy at all up to the time you were called, didn’t you go to sleep at all?
A. Why, I don’t think I did.

Q. Up to the time when someone called you, did you hear any noise?
A. No, sir; I don’t remember to hear a sound of anybody.

Q. Did you hear any opening or closing of the screen door?
A. No, sir, I did not.

Q. Are you able to hear the opening or closing of that screen door from your bedroom?
A. Yes, sir; if anybody goes in or out and is careless and slams the door, I can hear it in my room.

The screen door was located by the back stairs, which when one ascended the stairs they would end up just outside of Bridget’s bedroom door, so it doesn’t surprise me that she could hear the screen door if someone had slammed it. However, Andrew was killed in the Sitting Room; his head was toward the Parlor and Dining Room doors. If the killer closed the door of the Sitting Room nearest to the back stairs, and the door to the Dining Room nearest the back stairs, then Bridget definitely would not have heard a thing. Even of these doors were left open, I highly doubt that she would have heard anything, due to the distance between her bedroom and the end of Sitting Room couch where Andrew’s head laid. According the Bridget’s testimony, it seems to me that she was not absolutely sure that she did not dose off or fall asleep. Therefore it is possible that she did actually dose off or fall asleep, and then she would not have heard anything.

twinsrwe wrote: The screen door was located by the back stairs, which when one ascended the stairs they would end up just outside of Bridget’s bedroom door, so it doesn’t surprise me that she could hear the screen door if someone had slammed it. However, Andrew was killed in the Sitting Room; his head was toward the Parlor and Dining Room doors. If the killer closed the door of the Sitting Room nearest to the back stairs, and the door to the Dining Room nearest the back stairs, then Bridget definitely would not have heard a thing. Even of these doors were left open, I highly doubt that she would have heard anything, due to the distance between her bedroom and the end of Sitting Room couch where Andrew’s head laid. According the Bridget’s testimony, it seems to me that she was not absolutely sure that she did not dose off or fall asleep. Therefore it is possible that she did actually dose off or fall asleep, and then she would not have heard anything.

So essentially Lizzie's room was located directly above the sitting room, and above that the attic storage space. Bridget's room would have been separated from the sitting room by another furnished floor, and a chimney. As the chimney ran down from the attic storage (sharing a wall with Bridget's room), to Lizzie's room, and into the sitting room.

I agree with you twinsrwe, I too believe that if the door nearest to the back stairs was closed then Bridget wouldn't have heard anything that would have raised an alarm.
I am leaning more towards Bridget dosing off. The intense heat, the washing of the windows, the vomiting, it would have all tired her out. I also have from personal experience found that if I'm nauseous and end up vomiting, I tend to want to lie down as I feel like I've been drained of energy.

I agree, Violette; I also believe Bridget may have dosed off, due to feeling fatigued, and even if she didn't dose off I really don't think she could have heard anything given the distance between where Andrew was killed and her bed.

I don't recall if there is any testimony regarding if the Sitting Room door nearest the chimney was open or closed. Furthermore, would Bridget have closed her door once she was in her bedroom?

twinsrwe wrote: I don't recall if there is any testimony regarding if the Sitting Room door nearest the chimney was open or closed. Furthermore, would Bridget have closed her door once she was in her bedroom?

I don't recall reading any testimony on the door in question either. I had thought since Dr. Bowen was on the scene rather quickly that his testimony would have included something about the state of the sitting room in general, but I found nothing.

Heat tends to rise in a house. We have an attic that is only accessibly by folded stairs that are pulled down from the ceiling. I've went up there in the summer time to store things and get things out of storage, and it gets hot! I couldn't imagine that Bridget would have the door closed. Is there a window in the room?

You're right, Violette, I read somewhere that Bridget's room was very hot in the summer months and freezing cold during the winter months. I don't know if that is true, but we do know that heat rises.

Yes, Bridget's room does have a window (Click on the last two pictures to enlarge.):
http://tinyurl.com/z5qvvlh

http://tinyurl.com/hwwtxy6

http://tinyurl.com/zcc944q

http://tinyurl.com/htjyjze

twinsrwe wrote:You're right, Violette, I read somewhere that Bridget's room was very hot in the summer months and freezing cold during the winter months. I don't know if that is true, but we do know that heat rises.

Thanks for the photos! (sidetone: that wallpaper is lovely!)

If she had a window in her room, I would think that if it was stifling she could have opened the window to let some of the heat out. Maybe keeping the door ajar too, so that the air is circulating.

You're welcome for the photos. Yes, I agree, she may have opened her window and kept her door ajar.

I think Bridget probably did dose off; given the fact that she had vomited and washed the windows outside and inside, she probably was fatigued. I don't see how she couldn't have been. Also when you add the fact that her bedroom was two floors above the Sitting Room, I really don't think under those circumstances that she heard anything.

Those old houses were not like the new ones. I grew up in a big old house with 3 stories and if I was up on the third floor, I could not hear anything going on on the first floor. I could hear a door slam, that was about it. I could not hear conversations, even if it was on the second floor. I doubt Bridget heard anything at all, just as she stated.

I love Bridget's room...that wallpaper pattern is Roosevelt Rose, isn't it?

SallyG wrote:... I love Bridget's room...that wallpaper pattern is Roosevelt Rose, isn't it?

Bridget's room is my favorite, although I have not been to Fall River. If I ever do get the opportunity to visit Fall River I would definitely want to stay overnight in Bridget's room, at the Lizzie Borden Bed and Breakfast.

I think you are correct; the wallpaper pattern looks like it is Roosevelt Rose, or a variation of it.

> I will look at this again but my first thought is WHY didn't anyone hear anything? Like Bridget? She was only upstairs and should have heard the murder of Andrew.

To me, Bridget's "not hearing" Andrew's murder doesn't seem unreasonable at all. Consider these things:

1) The Bordens' immediate neighbor (Addy Churchill, IIRC) testified that 2nd Street was so noisy that when her home windows were open she couldn't hear ordinary noises coming from inside her house. That's one person's observation, but it's also generally well known that Andrew Borden chose his home's location because it was close to his business interests. It's certainly reasonable to assume that at 11 AM on a Thursday, the middle of a business day, there would be a fair amount of activity and noise on the streets around the Borden home.

2) I've never personally heard the sound of a hatchet whacking into a living person's head, but I'll make some guesses as to what it would sound like. Maybe butchering, as one person said? Or chopping of wood? Or hammering? I can't imagine that any of these would have been terrribly unusual to Bridget.

3) People often don't notice things that are ordinary, not especially loud or otherwise vivid, and are, to the extent they require explanations at all, perfectly explainable. Does anyone really notice -- every time -- the sound of the dog barking from three houses away, or a car driving by, or similar things?

So here's my take on it. Bridget's upstairs, lying down. If she's thinking about much at all it's probably, "oh God, I hope I don't puke again, because I'd hate to have that smell in my own bedroom." She hears noises which sound a lot like something else (wood chopping, etc) with which she's already familiar, something that has been innocuous and routine on every other occasion when she's ever heard it -- just one more common noise that doesn't stand out in the hustle and bustle of everyday city noise she's hearing already. She has no reason to be alarmed; for that matter, no reason to even suspect that anything is amiss. And so she doesn't notice it at all, and within a minute has completely forgotten she ever heard it.

Phil1963 wrote:> ... I've never personally heard the sound of a hatchet whacking into a living person's head...

Phil1963 wrote:> I will look at this again but my first thought is WHY didn't anyone hear anything? Like Bridget? She was only upstairs and should have heard the murder of Andrew.

To me, Bridget's "not hearing" Andrew's murder doesn't seem unreasonable at all. Consider these things:

1) The Bordens' immediate neighbor (Addy Churchill, IIRC) testified that 2nd Street was so noisy that when her home windows were open she couldn't hear ordinary noises coming from inside her house. That's one person's observation, but it's also generally well known that Andrew Borden chose his home's location because it was close to his business interests. It's certainly reasonable to assume that at 11 AM on a Thursday, the middle of a business day, there would be a fair amount of activity and noise on the streets around the Borden home.

2) I've never personally heard the sound of a hatchet whacking into a living person's head, but I'll make some guesses as to what it would sound like. Maybe butchering, as one person said? Or chopping of wood? Or hammering? I can't imagine that any of these would have been terrribly unusual to Bridget.

3) People often don't notice things that are ordinary, not especially loud or otherwise vivid, and are, to the extent they require explanations at all, perfectly explainable. Does anyone really notice -- every time -- the sound of the dog barking from three houses away, or a car driving by, or similar things?

So here's my take on it. Bridget's upstairs, lying down. If she's thinking about much at all it's probably, "oh God, I hope I don't puke again, because I'd hate to have that smell in my own bedroom." She hears noises which sound a lot like something else (wood chopping, etc) with which she's already familiar, something that has been innocuous and routine on every other occasion when she's ever heard it -- just one more common noise that doesn't stand out in the hustle and bustle of everyday city noise she's hearing already. She has no reason to be alarmed; for that matter, no reason to even suspect that anything is amiss. And so she doesn't notice it at all, and within a minute has completely forgotten she ever heard it.

Welcome to the forum, Phil1963. You have joined the most accurate and informative forum available on the Borden Murder case.

Excellent post; glad to see you are posting your thoughts and opinions, which I agree with.

twinsrwe wrote:

Phil1963 wrote:Welcome to the forum, Phil1963. You have joined the most accurate and informative forum available on the Borden Murder case.

Excellent post; glad to see you are posting your thoughts and opinions, which I agree with.

Thanks. Looking at your post above, it looks like you're in the "of course Lizzie did it" camp, as I am. I'm one of those who thinks that the shortest distance between two points is usually a straight line, and in this case the lines all point to Lizzie.

I've gotta say, this particular part of the case has always struck me as a little odd. It was too hot to plausibly believe that Lizzie could have spent twenty minutes in the loft of the barn? OK. But Bridget, when she was feeling poorly, went to the hottest part of the house to lie down? Weird. Hey, I'm sure that the barn was hot as Death Valley; that Lizzie never went up there; and that Bridget did go to her attic room to take her rest, but it seems like an odd choice for Bridget to make. I think if I was her I would have gone outside and sat in the shade under a tree, or even gone down and hung out in the cellar for a while.

I can see why Bridget would rest in her room - her one piece of personal territory, and refuge from the employers - and some experts on the house hold it was cooler up on the third floor. It's reasonable to want a lie-down after washing umpteen windows inside and out, which labour would be corseted. But I don't find it so easy to accept it is where she went on this particular day, at this particular time, this transfer upstairs unleashing the second murder.

She hears the hour struck by the City Hall clock. Just across Second Street was St Mary's Church. Wasn't that much closer? and surely St Mary's bells would chime the hour much louder still? If so, wouldn't Bridget be reckoning time from Fall River's first Catholic Church?

I can't find the answer. St Mary's looks so close to no. 92 I wonder it didn't drive them mad with its carillon.

InterestedReader wrote: I can see why Bridget would rest in her room - her one piece of personal territory, and refuge from the employers

Great point.

InterestedReader wrote: and some experts on the house hold it was cooler up on the third floor.

Now I'm curious. Heat rises, so all other things being equal, seems the attic should be hotter, not cooler. Maybe I'm biased, having just done some work in my own attic, but I'm still sweating just from thinking about it ... although admittedly, August in Kentucky is probably hotter than August in Massachusetts.

Can you be more specific about this? Thanks.

Phil, I'm a Londoner and never been to Massachusetts!
I read the 'somewhat cooler in fact' idea on this Forum and my best notion of where to search would be in Shelley Dziedzic's posts.
memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=473
Shelley Dziedzic was a docent (I think you call it) or guide at 92 and would post extensively about the building, its construction and features. She'd establish issues like how much sound carried where. Very interesting material.

Yes, it surprised me, that Bridget's room might not be the hottest place in the house... She'd be lying under an open window, though.

I've been through the whole Forum and can't find the answer to St Mary's bells! Kat wrote in 2006 that they did ring the hour & no-one's ever asked just how loud they were or are.