Lizzie Borden Society Forum

I am so glad to find this board.

Like many, my first introduction to Lizzie Borden was the TV movie with Elizabeth Montgomery that I saw when I was a kid. It scared me but captivated me at the same time.

My mom visited Fall River, years ago, and returned with a book about the case for me. Anyway, I finally made the journey to the Borden House in Fall River last weekend.

Interesting place on many levels, and we had a very good tour guide. Before I rekindle my interest in this case, I just want to give my gut feelings about what I think happened and why. I don't know if any of it is true, but it's my first impression after being away from the case for years.

-- Lizzie and Emma were both in on the murders, or both colluded and had knowledge.

-- Lizzie and Emma bore emotional, physical and possibly even sexual abuse at the hands of their father and stepmother, and both were like kidnapped women with Stockholm Syndrome as adults. Also, it was the custom for spinsters to live with their families until they died, and Lizzie, especially, had reached the tipping point with her father.

--Both were obviously enraged at their father's superior treatment of Abby, monetarily and otherwise, and it seems clear to me, that would be the motive for the murders.

--I think it was Lizzie, alone, who carried out both murders, though others may have been involved in covering it up. The 'paint' on her dress was not paint, obviously.

--The murders were passion murders. Yep, someone was really consumed with suppressed rage. Those murders were extreme overkill.

--I think Lizzie was in a dissociative fugue state, fueled by years of extreme abuse--mostly emotional--and I find it interesting that she killed her father and stepmother in the same manner that her father killed her pigeons.

--She killed her abusers, which is why she never killed again, or showed signs of extreme mental illness or sociopath inclinations.

--Yes, she might have been a repressed lesbian. Don't know, really, but I got that impression.

Just my initial thoughts, before I delve back into researching this case. Fascinating to tour the house. I felt a lot of sense memories in that house, but I never, ever got the impression that Lizzie was a true psychopath, etc. I got the impression that she and her sister felt the only way to escape their lot in life was to get rid of their chief abusers. I'm not saying it was right, but that is the impression I felt while walking through that sad house.

I went to the grave as well. One photo I have has an anomaly on it. If you enlarge it, you can see the face of a bearded man, wearing glasses. Odd.

I look forward to posting more here, and learning more about the case in detail. I cannot wait for Maplecroft to open to the public. Beautiful country in RI and Fall River, etc. I am looking forward to my next visit.

Thanks!
Lisa
Atlanta, GA

Welcome, Lisa!

Interesting points. You'll have a ton of information to read and sort through.

Hello Lisa, welcome to the forum.

You have some very good thoughts here. I agree with most of your thoughts. Following are my thoughts on the things I disagree with:

I think that Emma and Lizzie may have been abused emotionally, by their father, and perhaps more so by Abby. We don’t know the exchange of words which may have occurred between Andrew and the women he loved, nor do we know the exchange of words which may have occurred between Abby and the girls; I think Andrew was put between a rock and a hard place when it came to the relationships between his wife and daughters. I really don’t think the girls were abused physically or sexually.

Andrew and Abby were not killed in the same manner as the pigeons.

Lizzie's Inquest testimony, questioned by Mr. Knowlton, page 82:

Q. Can you tell of any killing of an animal? or any other operation that would lead to their being cast there, with blood on them?
A. No sir, he killed some pigeons in the barn last May or June.
Q. What with?
A. I don't know, but I thought he wrung their necks.
Q. What made you think so?
A. I think he said so.
Q. Did anything else make you think so?
A. All but three or four had their heads on, that is what made me think so.
Q. Did all of them come into the house?
A. I think so.
Q. Those that came into the house were all headless?
A. Two or three had them on.
Q. Were any with their heads off?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Cut off or twisted off?
A. I don't know which.
Q. How did they look?
A. I don't know, their heads were gone, that is all.
Q. Did you tell anybody they looked as though they were twisted off?
A. I don't remember whether I did or not. The skin I think was very tender, I said why are these heads off? I think I remember of telling somebody that he said they twisted off.
Q. Did they look as if they were cut off?
A. I don't know, I did not look at that particularly.

http://lizzieandrewborden.com/wp-conten ... nquest.pdf

Thanks for the responses! Yes, I was told at the Lizzie Borden House that the pigeons had their heads cut off, then, when I came back from the trip and started reading, that doesn't seem to be the case.

My initial post just contained my 'feelings' I got while walking through the house and listening to the story told. I just felt like there was something 'odd concerning Andrew's control over both women, especially Lizzie. There was some sort of abuse, definitely. I'm looking forward to investigating more. Fascinating case, period.

Thanks,
Lisa

It sure does appear that the murders were crimes of passion and that makes it all the more reason to believe it had to be someone close rather than an intruder.

Patsy: I agree with you. The fact that only the heads were attacked, the type of weapon used, the number of blows, seems to be to indicate rage, and therefore passion. The murders seem HATEFUL; the killer didn't just want them dead, but obliterated; destroying someone's face and head..it seems there is power behind that type of killing.