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NEW letter to Knowlton discovered and donated

Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 9:47 am
by Stefani
So there is this:

The family that donated the Knowlton papers (related to the Borden case) have very recently come forward to donate a letter that had been overlooked. Michael Martins blogged about it yesterday, teasing of its release two days before.

It is quite the letter.

Read it here:

http://lizzieborden.org/CuratorsCorner/ ... he-letter/

Re: NEW letter to Knowlton discovered and donated

Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 1:34 pm
by patsy
It must have been just normal or something to see two men jump a fence with an axe with red on it and bloody-looking overalls. Haaaa

Re: NEW letter to Knowlton discovered and donated

Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 3:13 pm
by twinsrwe
Well, I have to agree, Stefani - It is quite the letter!

It is so nice of the Knowlton descendant to donate this letter to the FRHS. I think it is a good addition to the Knowlton Papers collection, even though it is definitely not a smoking gun.

Questions I have regarding the contents of the letter:

A. Why wait until the ‘cranks’ have had their say, before getting their story told, if their story is in fact true?
B. Why didn’t they notify the Fall River Police Department, if they did indeed observe two men, one with a red axe, and the other with a pair of overalls which were dabbed with something red, which looked like blood, coming from behind the house, jumping over the back fence and disappearing. They didn’t think anything of it until they read a good deal about the murder? Seriously? (I find it odd that they stated the word, ‘murder’ instead of ‘murders’.)
c. Why didn’t anyone else on second street, which by many accounts was busy that morning, observe such activity?
d. They knew who the men were and where they have gone, makes them accessories to murder. Doesn't it? They blatantly told Mr. Knowlton that they are withholding information that could have been used to convict the real killers, and free Lizzie. ???
e. They stated that ‘the letter coming from “John” was true’. John who? What letter?
f. Why request that their letter be published? Why? What makes them think that their letter will go some ways towards freeing Lizzie?
h. What makes them think that they will have an option of deciding whether or not they testify at her trial?
i. What medium? What are they talking about here?
j. Who had a man around her when she wrote what letter? What letter?

If indeed the content of that letter is factual, then Hosea Knowlton did the only thing he could possibly do: chalk it up as a hoax. Given the contents of the letter, how could he, or anyone else, possibly corroborate anything? The letter does not contain an actual date, nor is it signed by either of the alleged ‘witnesses’, who had the nerve to send such a letter to Mr. Knowlton, and then take off for the summer!

Thank you so much for sharing this interesting information with us, Stefani.

Re: NEW letter to Knowlton discovered and donated

Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 8:49 am
by Stefani
Your questions are good ones. Michael Martins also probably agrees with your suspicions. I just find it interesting. I too want to know about the John letter. There needs to be much more context. They were never called to testify so both the defense and prosecution must have thought it bunk. And there is no name on it. So how was Knowlton to contact him back?

In the Rufus Hilliard papers there is one from someone who says "Jack the Ripper"---another intriguing note, but who the heck knows. People wrote letters back then with theories, like we do today online in any place we find home to discuss such things. Groups, forums, FB, Twitter, etc. I just appreciate that we still have them!

Probably a hoax but intriguing, nonetheless.

Re: NEW letter to Knowlton discovered and donated

Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 10:30 am
by twinsrwe
Thanks, Stefani.

I have been a fan of Michael Martins for years; I find the way he presents information about Lizzie, very interesting. I am curious as to how he determine that letter was written in the late summer of 1892, since the letter is not dated and there is no postmark, since the original envelope had not survived?

Here is my take on it: We know the Borden murders occurred on August 4, 1892. The author of that letter stated they waited until after the cranks had their say, before writing what they had to say, and they ended the letter with: ‘No need of our names at present as we are away for the summer’ Therefore, when I first read it, I thought that letter had to have been written in the late spring of 1893, prior to Lizzie’s trial.

Here are some things in the contents of the letter, that struck me as being very odd, to say the least:

The author of that letter wrote (Underlining is mine): ‘We were going by the house on the morning of the murder, when we saw two men come from behind the house and jump over the back fence and disappear.

The author did not state whose house they were going by. The author stated that they ‘saw two men come from behind the house …’ They did not say the two men came from behind the Borden house. As a matter of fact the Borden name was not mentioned, at all, throughout the entire letter.

As I mentioned before, I think it is odd that the author stated the word ‘murder’, instead of ‘murders’; that is if they were talking about the Borden murders.

The two ‘witnesses’ could not possibly see two men come from behind the house and jump over the back fence, when they were supposedly walking by the house, on the sidewalk in front of the house, could they? I have not been to 92 Second Street, so it is rather difficult for me to envision where they could have been standing in order to see everything they stated they saw.

The author stated they saw two men jump over the back fence. ( What did they do, jump over the fence like kangaroos would jump over a fence? :lol: I have a mental image in my head of them jumping over the fence like this: http://tinyurl.com/ybr2hyop :lol: or http://tinyurl.com/ya4taa93 :lol: I know, sometimes it doesn't take much to humor me. :lol: ) Wouldn’t it be more realistic to have said the two men climbed over the fence?

The author of the letter wrote (Underlining is mine): ‘One had an axe which was red, and the other had a pair of overalls which were dabbed with something red which looked like blood.’ I think the author was insinuating that the axe had something on it that looked like red blood. However, a red axe could have looked like this:

13274.jpg

I find it totally unrealistic that they saw a pair of overalls, which had something on them that looked like blood. Just how close were the two witnesses to the two men they saw jumping over the fense, carrying a red axe and overalls that had something red on them? Furthermore, the author claims they knew who the two men where and where they went. So what do they do? Send this unsigned letter to Mr. Knowlton, without naming the two men they observed, took off for summer, and then had the nerve to sign off with, ‘For Gods sake free Lizzie.’ Seriously? :shaking:

OK, enough picking part of that letter! Whew!

Oh, one more thing…

I’m also curious about the John letter that the author mentioned. According to the content of the letter, it is insinuated and we are lead to believe that the man who had the axe was John V. Morse. We know from John’s Inquest testimony that he had a letter from Andrew with him.

Inquest Testimony of John V. Morse, being questioned by Mr. Knowlton, page 98 (5):

Q. You do not think you had written announcing your visit at this time?
A. I don’t think I did. Let me see, let me tell it as I can think of it. Mr. Borden, when I over here sometime in July, that I speak of, wanted to know if I knew of a man he could get on his farm, to take charge of it, I told him I did not know, I would see. When I got back I wrote him I knew of a man I thought would suit him, I would send him over. He wrote back to me he had rather I would wait until I saw him. I have his letter n my pocket, if you want to see it.

Q. What was the date of that letter? You may refresh your memory. If you have no objections, I will see it. (Witness produces the letter dated July 25, 1892.)
Q. Have you any objection to me keeping this?
A. No sir, I would not like it lost, because it was the last one I ever had from him.

Q. That, then, was the last correspondence before you came over?
A. That is the last.


Source: http://lizzieandrewborden.com/wp-conten ... ay2003.pdf

Does the FRHS happen to have the last letter that Andrew wrote?

To wrap this post up, please feel free of share my thoughts with Michael Martins. It would be interesting to know what he thinks.

An afterthought: I wonder if that letter was not with the rest of the Hip Hop Collection, because it was never a letter that Mr. Knowlton considered being related to the Borden case. Could it have been relating to another case?

Personally, I also think the letter is probably a hoax. If that is so, then I find it fascinating that anyone would go to the trouble of writing and mailing such a ridiculously useless letter, and then expect Lizzie to be freed once it is published. Yeah, right! I’m sure Hosea Knowlton got right on that! :roll: