Lizzie Borden Society Forum

Hi! I'm a longtime lurker who has enjoyed reading old threads on this board, and I've finally decided to join now that I've read a few books and primary sources so that I can converse intelligently with everyone here. I first learned about (and became intrigued by) the Borden case as a child, and when I was a teenager (about 15 years ago) I convinced my parents to take me to 92 Second Street for the tour. I'd like to go again, but hubby isn't so sure!

Anyway, I was reading the Rebecca Pitmann book recently, and I became very sad when reading about Abby's relationship with Emma and Lizzie. Obviously it was a cold relationship, and I can only imagine three reasons why it would be so:
a) Abby was a mean and nasty stepmother
b) Emma was bitter that her father remarried and essentially groomed Lizzie to dislike Abby
c) Things were okay until Andrew Borden bought into the house on Fourth Street to provide security for Abby Borden and her half-sister

I find "a" to be unlikely. I think Abby Borden was a quiet woman who was decent to the girls. There is no evidence that she was mean or selfish.
I think "b" is probably true. Emma clearly had issues when her father remarried and, in many ways, Emma was Lizzie's mother figure. But this still bothers me because Lizzie was so young when her mother died. One would think she would identify with Abby as her mother since Abby was around for the vast majority of Lizzie's life. Also, why would Emma be so upset at the remarriage? Women died young frequently in that era (especially during childbirth) so having a stepmother was not at all unusual.

It is said that the relationship between Emma/Lizzie and Abby deteriorated upon the Fourth Street real estate transaction. My question is- were the sisters that petty? Andrew did something nice for his wife, and that caused all hell to break loose in the house? Emma and Lizzie stood to inherit a decent amount of money upon Andrew's death even if Abby got her share as a widow.

Thank you for reading this. I have much sympathy for Abby because she strikes me as a tragic figure. She was plucked from spinsterhood to be a wife and stepmother, and neither of her stepdaughters seemed to have appreciated her. In fact, I think one of them killed her.

Hi. I’m new to the group. I enjoyed your post. I haven’t read the Pittman book (yet).
I concur with you on ‘a’, ‘c’ and probably ‘ b. ‘
Regarding “a”. From what I have read about Abby, I agree with your ‘take’ on Abby. (A quiet woman who was decent to the girls.)
Regarding “c”. As I grow older, I can see how many devious persons can take out their hatred of a family member by legal means ( a will or taking advantage of an elderly person so the will or inheritance is written in a certain person(s)’s favor). Andrew may have recognized that Emma and Lizzie might dispute any inheritance after his death ( and they would have had the financial means to). So, he deeded the Fourth Street House to Abby so she had a permanent place that could not be taken from her.
I had a well- to -do relative, in that time frame , who,as stipulated in his father’s will was supposed to look after his mother ( whom the adult son apparently didn’t hold in affection). The adult son was willed everything by the father. The son was an only child. The widow only got an ‘allowance’ to be administered by the adult son. Eventually, the widow had to take the adult son to court to increase her allowance and the manner in which it was doled out, so she wasn’t destitute. (The widow won.) So, Abby may perpetually have been in that boat if Emma and Lizzie were in charge of Abby’s living expenses after Andrew’s death.
Regarding “b”. I believe too, at this point, for many complicated reasons that Emma did groom Lizzie to dislike Abby. At one point, though, I think that Lizzie’s dislike of Abby took on a life of its own. So, Abby had created a monster.
On another thread, I’d like to explore sometime Emma’s early ‘parentification’ after her biological mother’s death and her (supposed) deathbed promise to always look after Lizzie. ( This, in my opinion, led to Abby and Lizzie both living diminished and damaged lives.)
It’s really difficult when two people ‘team up’ on another person - especially in the same household. And for whatever reason, Andrew, couldn’t or wouldn’t intervene (usually) on Abby’s behalf. Of course, look what happened when he did (the deeding of the Fourth Street House) ! Was his intervention too little, too late??
I think it would have been super creepy to be in Abby’s shoes.

Oop, Two corrections:
Emma had created a monster.
And Emma and Lizzie living diminished and damaged lives.
for some reason I get Emma’s and Abby’s names mixed up. Maybe I’ll.catch on eventually.

Thank you for your response, Interested1. You make a good point about how the girls might have contested the will. I just find it so sad that Emma and Lizzie hated the kindness that Andrew showed to Abby regarding the Fourth Street House. I have a stepmother who entered my life much later than Abby did for Emma and Lizzie (my mother died when I was 22), and even though I don't call her "mother," I hope and expect that my father will make sure she is taken care of if he should die first. I agree with you that I would love to know more about Emma's relationship both with her dead mother and how she took care of Lizzie after their mother's death.
Personally I can't imagine being so obsessed with Andrew's will as Lizzie and Emma seem to be, but I also can work and own my own income (although right now I'm a stay at home mom). And, I'm married, so I have financial support from my husband that Emma and Lizzie didn't. That's another conversation right there...I think that Andrew dropped the ball on not introducing the girls to "society" so that they could get married. (After all, that was a wealthy woman's lifetime goal at that time)!

Interesting posts.
I do agree with both your thoughts for a and c.
As for b... here are my thoughts about it. In those days like today even.. it's not unusual on a mothers deathbed to say to the elder child. Now you look after your little sister for me. Not actually meaning you are now to take over my role as mother.. but instead to keep an eye out for her. But.. if Emma helped a lot in the care of Lizzie.. specially when her mother had taken ill. Then she would naturally consider herself to be her sister's little mother. And think that it is her duty to actually step into her mother's shoes after she passed. So for 3 years or so.. Emma is essentially the lady of the house. Lizzie's mother.

Now here come's Abby. Lizzie is still to young to get it or probably really care. All she knows is that she now has a mother when before she really only had her sister. She's still a little child

But Emma... oh... she's not thrilled about it.. because now this stranger is trying to take my place.

Then.. a few years into the marriage.. Emma is sent off to Wheaton.

Lizzie at this point is still calling Abby mother. Which I'm sure eats at Emma. But Emma goes away to school.
Does the relationship between Lizzie and Abby become somewhat closer? Most likely.. specially during those years when a girl depends on her mother to instill manners and how to act properly.

Now within 18-20 months.. Emma decides to ditch school...and return home. Why??? Was it because she couldn't hack it? Was she getting letters from Lizzie saying Abby and I did this or we did that and Emma was afraid of them becoming overly close? Jealousy? Possibly.

Now we know when Lizzie was about 15 she stopped going to school. and this happened right after one of Uncle John's stays at the Borden household. Why?

But let me get back to the matter at hand here.

Emma returns.. and she's not happy. but hey I don't think she really was a happy person to begin with But I think she's got the smarts to know how to silently manipulate Lizzie back to her corner. Little whispers of dissention at the right moments, little niggering seeds planted so that Lizzie becomes somewhat distrusting of Abby. and its festering for years..

Now.. Abby's mother Jane decides that she wants to go and live with her other daughter. But she needs the money from the sale of her side of the Gray/Whitehall house to do so. Abby approaches the subject with Andrew. Maybe it was Jane who actually approached the subject with him.. who knows.. but either Probably saying.. it would be a good investment and it would be kept within the family. Andrew being the business man.. probably feels.. I'm getting old.. and I should make arrangements for Abby to be taken care of if something happens to me. So he decides to deed it to Abby.. It was his choice to do so.. and I don't see why he needed to run it pass or even tell the girls. It actually was none of their business.

But they find out...And I believe.. that Emma had the hissy fit about it and that Lizzie at this point.. those little seeds.. I'm your sister.. you should be loyal to me not her.. I'm your family.. not her.. Lizzie steps in and backs Emma against Abby. I think it was Emma who was not content with the gift of receiving the grandfathers house on Ferry St. And I think Emma kept at it with lizzie with whispers of discontentment. He only did because I told him he had too. What else will she try to take from us?
But it seems that the girls might have realized what it actually took to be landlords with tenants to deal with.. and they chose to sell the place back to Andrew for a big profit.. They should have been satisfied that Andrew came through for them in the first place with the house and when they didn't want it anymore he was willing to purchase it back from then so they made a hefty profit. I don't get why it's said that they were still so upset about this incident 5 years later.?
What else was going on? There has to be more to the story.

We know Lizzie was involved in the community and social functions. She had a life to an extent.

But what was going on with Emma? Who was she really? I just have the feeling that she was like the shadow that was there but wasn't noticed. On the outside she was quite and agreeable, prime and proper. But inside.. I think she was a smoldering time bomb and her way of dealing with it was to manipulate Lizzie to her side. I think once the trial was over and they moved to Maplecroft that Lizzie realized that she didn't want the quite life that Emma insisted they have. Lizzie needed to go and do and Emma didn't like that. That's what I think there rift was about. Emma not being able to control Lizzie anymore. So she left.
As far as the murders.. I have my thought's.. and I don't think Emma's hands were spotless. To many why now questions for me.... . make me very suspicious.

I totally agree with what you wrote, it makes sense. For girls especially it's hard to see their father with another women after their mother dies. Although I don't think Abby and Andrew were really a love match. It seemed to be a marriage of convenience. I kind of feel sorry for Abby, I read an old article of an interview with her niece Abby Potter from the 60's. She remembered her aunt Abby as a kind person and that the Borden sisters were odd. Creepy thing, she mentioned she was supposed to have gone to the Borden house the day of the murders but didn't. She also attended the funeral for the Borden's at the home on Second st. I love this site!

Many married for convivence back then And I think that might have been initially between Andrew and Abby. But I also think that as time went on, the marriage might have become on of mutual respect between then two of them. From what we learn about Andrew being frugal in his ways. I think he really did realize what an asset Abby was to have around and because of this he either purchased and signed over the deed to her or gave her the funds to purchase her family home. I think he felt something for her.. if not actual love. Seems like he wanted to be sure she was in some way taken care of for her future. He was 70.
As far as the girls having issue with him remarrying. Lizzie was too little to know any better and or remember her mother. But Emma.. totally different story. I can see Emma having a hissy fit and quietly causing trouble trying to undermine Abby's authority in the house. Wonder if this might be the reason why she was sent away to school so soon after they married?

LG509 wrote: Fri Nov 16, 2018 1:30 pm
b) Emma was bitter that her father remarried and essentially groomed Lizzie to dislike Abby



.

This--make no mistake about it, Emma was the straw that stirred the hate-filled drink towards Abby. If she didnt put the idea into Lizzie's head directly she did it indirectly with possible comments about losing inheritance and being destitute scrubbing floors...Abby is going to convince Father to give her and her 2nd class family everything, we are going to get left out.. see she already talked him into the house for her sister, and Uncle John says he is going to transfer our beloved Swansea Farm to her on Aug 5th as well....soon there will be nothing left for us....something has to be done Lizzie, something has to be done...(this is all my opinion of what I think occurred)

I have to agree with letter "B". Emma and LIzzie's mother died about when Lizzie was two, so she didn't know her mother. Only what Emma told her, so she would have sided with Emma. And I don't think that Emma had enough back bone to do what Lizzie did. Emma only would have thought and talked about it.

Poor Abby.

Whether it was something more immediate (and I do believe that's very likely) or something that had been long simmering and suddenly exploded, Lizzie killed Abby because of her fears over Andrew leaving it all to her. I haven't researched it myself, but if Andrew didn't have a will at the time, would Abby have inherited everything? Of course, it only matters what Lizzie thought would happen.

Motive. Check. Means. Check. Opportunity. Well, she was the only person with any opportunity at all, seeing she was the only one in the house at the time.

For me the mystery is Lizzie herself, not the "who dunnit". When and how did she plan it? Where did she keep the weapon between axe-idents? Where did it land after the final deed was done? Did she plan that out in advance? What was she wearing and where did she hide her clothes? Did she consider in advance that she'd have to kill Andrew as well, or was that a desperate, totally unplanned move? How on earth did she think she'd pull it off and never even be suspected?

That girl had some gonads, especially considering the times.