Lizzie Borden Society Forum

Does anyone know about the Birtch property Andrew purchased right before the murders? Also, this was a seperate piece of land from the Swansea farm, correct? Thanks for any help!

The best person to answer your questions would be MBhenty. However, I did find a couple forum threads which contained information about the Birch property, that you may find interesting.

Andrew And His Property: http://tinyurl.com/y5d7gvbu

The next two threads I left in the forum highlighting for you, so that it would be easier to pick out where the Birch property is discussed.

http://tinyurl.com/yyqph85v

http://tinyurl.com/y3uxybkg

Those links were so interesting! Thanks, Twins. I can go down every rabbit hole on this forum and never get bored.

I'm glad you enjoyed those links. Did those links provide you with the information you were looking for?

Hopefully, MBhenty will jump in here and present us with what he knows about the Birch property.

LABRhush wrote: Mon Apr 08, 2019 4:43 pm ... I can go down every rabbit hole on this forum and never get bored.

I agree, the information that has been posted within the threads of this forum are the best you will find on the Borden case.

Yes, if you remember, just a short time before Borden was killed he visited one of his properties on South Main Street, the one on the corner of Spring and Main.

He was last seen there talking to a couple of carpenters, John Mather and Joseph Shortsleeves (love that name) who were renovating the store front for Jonathan Clegg. Clegg ran a millinery shop on North Main and was going to move his business there. (which he eventually did after the murders) I believe this was the Birch property. (or another property right next door, but mostly likely part of the the original Birch purchase) If you remember, this is where Borden picked up a discarded broken lock and took it with him. (This is also interesting. Shortsleeves testified that Borden picked up the lock than walked out. We don't know if he meant that Borden picked it up and took it with him or what, since there is no more witness to that specific lock)

Borden purchased the Birch property in partnership with Almy for an undisclosed amount. Records record that Borden and Almy purchased the land for one dollar. How much they really paid is unknown. The Birch property was purchased 30 years before Borden died and sometime in the early 1860s. This was well before he even lived on Second Street. So it is assumed that Almy and Borden built business building(s) where the Birch land existed. Clegg's store was three houses (buildings) down from the corner of Spring. (testimony by Shortsleeves) So Borden owned the corner, thus, the other two buildings. All of it on the Birch property. (land deal) I believe this included more business or buildings on Spring street up from the corner of Main.


You can see why Borden purchased the house that he did which was only one or two blocks away from this holdings.

Below is a map of the area. Where you see WESTERN UNION is the corner of Spring and Main. That was the Birch property. A little lower on the map you see the Fall River District Court. Borden had another property, (store) separate from the Birch property. In the upper left you can see the Lizzie B&B and 2nd street. The A. J. Borden building was just a property away from the last property you see in the lower part of the photo.

Here's a better photo of the Birch property.


The two red brick buildings in the foreground are on the Birch property. Off at the top left is the Borden place at 92. Where it says "Google" is really South Main Street.

Wow, thank you MB!

Ditto wow! Well that covers it. Thanks, Mbhenty! Very helpful. I had a quick 2nd question... after the murders, did the girls keep the Swansea farm property? Did they ever visit it again... or maybe sell it? Thanks, both of you!

Yes Thanks everyone. (or everytwo. )

It is interesting to note that Lizzie owned the Birch property during the fire of 1916 which burnt down a good portion of downtown fall river. (small 'f' small 'r')

Not certain whether it was insured or not but I remember reading that Lizzie and Emma had endured losses in the fire of 1916. All of it burnt down.

Two years after the fire the girls would sell 92 Second Street.

After the murders the girls kept the farm for another 18 years. So it was probably well used in that time.

The farm in Swansea was sold to the Gardner family. It included the house and all the land with it, and another plot of land a couple of 100 feet north on Gardner's Neck Road but on the east side which was across the street from the farm house.

The farm was sold sometime in 1910.

I am surprised that Lizzie did not keep the main house and just sell the bulk of the land and keep a place to stay in the summer. But who knows the reason why. As true for all of us sometimes it is just time to move on and that appears to be the ultimate outcome with the Swansea Farm.

You're welcome, MB. I can't tell you how much I appreciate the information you share with us!

I have a couple of questions.

1. In the second photo you posted: Is the building on Spring Street, just above where it says 'Rob Roy Academy', a church?

2. Emma and Lizzie rented 92 Second Street after they moved into Maplecroft until they sold it, didn't they?

Yes Twins:

Not sure about how you are asking your first question? But here goes.

Below is a close up of the actual footprint of the Borden property. "More or less." Not certain how far the property extended to the left of the photo. We know that one of the carpenters said that they were working on the third house down from the corner. (back then some of the businesses had apartments on the second level. Or it could be just the way the carpenter worded his description) So there were at least two other buildings owned by Borden. Not sure how far up Spring Street the Birch property extended. There was also another building a little further down Main Street. I think Borden rented to a clothing merchant there.

The Church is Saint Mary's Cathedral. Irish parish. Up from, and including the Borden house, this city sector was very Irish. A couple of blocks south became known as the Corky Row Neighborhood, as it is known today. Not the best part of town.

Saint Mary's was less than a block or 200 feet away from the Borden property. I can only laugh about how it must have been on Sundays when the minority Irish let out from church and swarmed the Borden neighborhood on their way home from service.

Borden did not own any property in the building where you see "Rob Roy". Not that I know of. I was always under the impression, since I never look up the actual records, that Borden owned the parcel on the north side of Spring. Rob Roy is a beauty salon college or teaching institute.

I have always been surprised that Lizzie and Emma hung onto the Borden property as long as they did. It was income property for the girls and run by their financial guy, Charles Cook. The girls owned the property for 24 years after the murders. How surprising.

Below is an interesting photo (postcard) of Saint Mary's in that it was well likely taken from 92 Second Street.

MB, thank you! You answered my questions, and then some!

The Saint Mary's Cathedral is beautiful; I really like the photo of it that you posted. The steeple sitting to the side of the church, intrigues me; usually steeples are on top, and in the middle, of a church, aren't they?

I also find it interesting that Emma and Lizzie held onto the 92 Second Street house for as long as they did. We have always been lead to believe that they despised that house. Guess it wasn't such a bad house as long as they didn't have to live in it, and they could pad their pockets. I'm sure the girls enjoyed having Charles Cook run it for them.

Yes Twins. Church architecture is the most beautiful structures built by man. That is why it is so sad to see them demolished. Or as in Fall River, fall river, demolished or burnt down.

The steeple on the side is a European style I suppose. An early one. Look at Lizzie's church. A perfect example of isolating the steeple from the rest of the building which gives the structure it's own semblance or impression. Saint Mary's church is much older. Built in 1852. Lizzie's church was build in 75 I think.

Here are a bunch of churches with the steeples on the side and sort of semi-separated from the main church. All the churches below are British, and are in England, Scotland, or Ireland.

Yes Twins:

Below is a photo of Saint Coleman’s Cathedral in Cohb, Ireland. (steeple on the side) In Lizzie Borden The Girl with the Pansy Pin, I go into a little detail about this church. The scene is of Lizzie on a steam ship which is entering Cork Harbor and the church comes into view. As she leans on the rail enjoying the scene she is talking with an Irish citizen who lives in America and is returning to Ireland to visit family. In the book this Irish fellow gives Lizzie a little history behind the building of the church. The church is an amazing building hovering over the city of Cobh.

Below is the scene of the city as I envisioned Lizzie witnessing it as the ship entered the harbor. A fictional telling you understand.

WOW, MB, thank you for posting pics of those churches! I agree, the outside architecture of these churches is absolutely gorgeous.

I found a web site which shows some photos of the inside of the Saint Coleman’s Cathedral, which I find breath-taking! Check it out: http://tinyurl.com/y3lzakub

Cool !

I knew you would enjoy that link!

Sadness beyond all Sadness.

Tragedy beyond explanation.

And Deja vu for me.

I am in shock at the moment.

I can't believe it...

Nortre Dame in France has completely burnt down. April 15, 2019. Eight p.m. Paris time.

There are no words.

Sad...

NORTRE DAME PARIS AND fALL rIVER, MA

NORTRE DAME PARIS AND fALL rIVER, MA

Difficult to wrap my mind around it. And I'm not even French.

OMG, MB, watching this fire and the Spire of the Notre Dame cathedral collapse reminds me of 9/11 and the collapse of the WTCs.

https://www.nbcnews.com/video/paris-not ... 4093379982

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vgVExkZ9GE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJaoyYJRGGU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TbFJUugLsw

This is so sad.