Lizzie Borden Society Forum

I am sure this forum has thoroughly discussed a couple of key aspects to Mrs. Churchill testimony below.

Mrs. Churchill Trial Testimony
"And I said, "Where were you when it happened?" and, she said, "I went to the barn to get a piece of iron." I said, "Where is your mother?" She said, "I don't know; she had got a note to go see someone who is sick, but I don't know but she is killed, too, for I thought I heard her come in." She said, "Father must have an enemy, for we have all been sick, and we think the milk has been poisoned. . . Dr. Bowen is not at home, and I must have a doctor.""

Issue #1 - Timeline to have heard Abby 'come in'.
As Andrew was getting comfortable on the sofa, he asked about Abby and Lizzie told him that she was visiting a sick friend. Then Lizzie says she went to the barn. When she returned to the house she found Andrew dead and called for help. When in this sequence of events, was Lizzie thinking she 'heard her come in"?

Issue #2 - Rehearsed lines?
Lizzie's quote to Mrs. Churchill is almost verbatim her comments to Alice Russell the evening before. "Father must have an enemy and we think the milk was poisoned." Lizzie's almost carbon copy comments to Mrs. Churchill and Alice Russell signal to me that she was setting the stage with Alice the night before.

The inconsistent barn alibi and the challenged timeline of hearing Abby 'come in' are all due to Lizzie going off script with Andrews murder due to his early return home and John joining them for dinner.

Quick follow up thought....I've read on many of the forum threads that we can't judge Lizzie on her behaviors and reactions since everyone handles stress differently. That is true up to a point.

Where I would differ is when it comes to self preservation. All humans are DNA'd to want to survive when under going a crisis, yet Lizzie behaved as if she had nothing to fear inside that house immediately after she found her dad. Does anyone really think that 10 out of 10 people in similar circumstances wouldn't have left the house or armed themselves with a weapon to defend against a potential threat? She did neither.

Nor did she call out for her step-mom to see if she was home and ok, even though just a few minutes later she is expressing her concerns for Abby to Churchill. No she went to the back stairway and called up to Bridget and asked her to come down. She didn't scream up "Maggie are you ok, someone killed father!". If Abby had come home, presumably she would either be in her room (floor below Bridget) or on the 1st floor, so why didn't Lizzie call out to Abby up the stairs?

Would love to hear any differing or concurring thoughts....

Mrs churchill saw lizzie at the side door before the police arrived. That may have been the safest place to be in her mind, not knowing if a maniac was still in the house or possibly outside. If outside the screen is locked, if inside lizzie could see someone coming and get out of there.

I totally agree that Lizzie should have run outside the house in fear and stayed there. That’s a normal reaction to threat. It points to her guilt. The other thing is how she tells Mrs Churchill: “Someone’s COME IN and killed father!”

That’s all wrong. You don’t announce the method of entry. You don’t stipulate ‘someone.’ You scream any number of things In full freak out and also denial...There’s something wrong with father, he’s all bloody! Or...Help!!!! I think father’s dead! Or...I think he’s been killed! You might even be rendered speechless and just scream, leaving your neighbor to run over.

And yes, camgarsky- great point. If Lizzie thought she heard Abby come in, it has to be after she greeted Andrew but then she goes directly outside, returning to immediately find Andrew dead. There’s no point at which to hear Abby come in.

Same thing with the groan and/or scraping noise Lizzie reports. When did she hear that? On her way in the door? It didn’t carry out to the barn. I think she was conflicted there on whether the scraping noise should indicate the murderer (whetting the hatchet?! Escaping through a window?) or whether she’s somehow saying that Andrew was still alive as she was steps away as if that exonerates her. He may have emitted a sound at the first strike but that had to be it; he’d have lost consciousness after.