Lizzie Borden Society Forum

The Fall River Herald from August 5th 1892 gives some interesting insight to the happenings. Officer Medley questions Mrs Emery about the time Morse left her home, and finally fixes it to 11:20 AM based on (of all things) the arrival of non other than Dr Bowen due to a sick family member, Since the Emery’s state that Bowen and Morse don’t see each other, I’m thinking Morse could have left even closer to 11 AM.
Who is lying here? It seems to suggest something is being hidden if the article is correct.
Why would the Emery’s say Bowen visited if he didn’t?
How could this possibly not be the case, what a strange thing to do,
Fixing Morse’s departure time upon Bowen’s arrival, yet say they never saw each other.
Perhaps Bowen relayed details to Morse to bolster his alibi just before entering, and out of sight of the Emery’s home, sometime closer to 11AM.


MORSE'S NIECE.

Mrs. Emery upon whom Mr. Morse called, was disposed to talk freely to Officer Medley, who interviewed her Thursday night. She said in reply to questions that she had, several callers during the day, and that one of them was John Morse.

"Was Morse the name we heard?" asked the officer of a companion.

"Yes," retorted Mrs. Emery quickly. "Morse was the man. He left here at 11:30 o'clock this morning."

"Then you noticed the time," observed the officer.

"Oh, yes," was the reply. "I noticed the time."

"How did you fix it?" was the next question.

After some little hesitation, Mrs. Emery said that one of her family was sick, and that Dr. Bowen was her physician. "Dr. Bowen came in just as Mr. Morse left."

"Did they meet?" queried the officers.

"No they did not," said Mrs. Emery.

At this point the niece in question entered the room and corroborated Mrs. Emery's statements, though both women finally fixed upon 11:20 as the exact time of Mr. Morse's departure.

Mrs. Emery volunteered information that Mr. Morse was well-to-do, at least she supposed he was comfortably off and that he had come east to spend his money. She was not positive on this point, however. Morse's niece was asked if she had ever seen her uncle before, and replied that she had. She had met him when she was five years old, and three weeks ago he had taken her from the cars at Warren to the Borden farm, Swansey.

Front view of 4 Weybosset. Circa 2026. Door on left is home of Mr. & Mrs. Kingsley. Door on right gives access to the staircase up to the Emery upper apartment. Youthful photo of Daniel Emery, Lydia's husband. In his later years, he moved to the Tampa, Florida area and became locally renowned as a sea shell collector!

I’ve never seen those pictures, that’s very interesting to put a face to Daniel and see their home still stands.

link to a extensive writeup on the Emery's. Great photos and read. Pic of the niece and nephew that Morse visited that day.
https://lizzieandrewborden.com/hatcheto ... all-river/


Daniel's OBIT in the Tampa Times. Note the reference to him being a foreman at a cotton mill. The mill was just around the corner from his Weybosset home.

Kind of weird realizing these are just normal people with unique interesting lives.

click on to enlarge

Thanks for the link, I’ll check it out.
The peripheral articles are interesting to compare to the testimonies for insight and/or validation.
I can’t remember if the Emery’s testimony mirrors the August 5th article in the FRH.

No testimony from the Emery's. They join others who are involved in the case pre-inquest and then disappear from the newspapers and source documents.
All we have from the Emery's and Morse's visit is what the newspapers and witness statements provide us. One exception is the letter from the city worker, Clarke, who told Phillips about running into Morse on Pleasant St.

Jennings Journals has entries for Mrs. Emery, Mrs. Kingsley and Conductor Kennedy, but they just reference the newspaper articles, so no fresh insights from that book.

Rebello was the author of the linked article and he is remarkably knowledgeable about the case, but I found a couple items in his article that I don't agree with. He mentioned that the Emery's had a phone, but there is no proof of that. The author William Spencer apparently did a thorough research on that topic and I've been told came up with nothing definitive. Telephones were in the initial stages of commercialization, so I personally doubt a mill worker, supervisor or not, had their own personal phone line. In 1892 Fall River they seem to have been primarily limited to doctors, the wealthy and businesses.

That was a treat. I didn’t realize Daniel and Lydia were around 30 years old at the time of the crimes.That’s a great photo of Lydia,
Do you recall the “trouble” Mrs Kingsley witnessed Morse have at the door?

Thanks, John must’ve had trouble summoning someone to the door.
I suppose there’s many rabbit holes if one believes Bowen visited the Emery’s right after Morse.
I recall you didn’t find it credible, but it is another among many strange anomalies in the case.

James Leonard was Dr. Bowen's coachman. Below he describes where they were just prior to arriving at Second St. Typed as written in Jennings notes.

Jennings Journals. Page 187.
James E. Leonard interviewed by Andrew J. Jennings.
"We left William St. top of street when we left street clock was striking 11. Got to house about 11.5 or 10 saw Allen policemen come out of house -- met Sawyer went back & found Sawyer in door -- Saw Officer Allen come up -- after we went to Baker's I saw Medley think sometime after I got back."

As you know, after viewing Andrew's dead body, Lizzie asked Bowen to send Emma a telegram. Bowen & Leonard went to telegraph office and then to Baker's pharmacy (apparently to gossip) and then returned to the Borden house around 11:35.

Williams Street is several blocks south of the Borden house and the Emery home is about a mile east of the Borden's.

Regarding Morse, we have Lydia Emery, Anna Borden, Conductor Kennedy, and Mrs. Kingsley all placing Morse at the Emery house or on a street car on Pleasant street at around 11:20.

When did Bowen and Morse almost 'run into' each other at the Emery's? If it occurred, I tend to think it was a couple hours earlier when Morse arrived at the Emery's. Only reason I think this is a possibility is because we have no idea where Bowen was earlier in the day.

Now that’s a good idea you have regarding when Morse and Bowen ran across each other even earlier than I had pondered, that’s (if they really did.)
I suppose it’s troubling to me that Mrs Emery and Lydia both finalized Morse leaving at 11:20 AM instead of 11:30 AM. because both women agreed that John left just prior to Bowen’s arrival.
If Bowen did come to the Emery’s that morning much earlier, it doesn’t help the two women solidify Morse’s departure.
I wonder if Bowen dropped in to see the Emery’s on his own accord as a follow up upon the sick family member at the Emery’s, or was he specifically summoned that particular morning by the Emery’s.
Seems if the Emery’s were expecting Bowen around the same time as Morse , then Morse would not of had “trouble” at the door, rather the opposite.
Just speculation of course, however it’s ironic, and strange that both Morse and Bowen were at both residences the morning of August 4th, were key figures in the case, but we don’t know the details of Bowen’s early day?

I think you are correct about the gossip at Baker’s pharmacy.
Bowen had some unique moves that day, like trying to get Mrs Churchill and others to view the bodies.

I don't believe the Emery's knew Morse was visiting them that morning. Morse said he decided to go after talking to AJB the previous evening. Andrew didn't have a telephone, so I presume John just 'showed up' at the Emery's, just like he did with the Borden's the previous day. With no telephones, I would think 'showing up' is the way things happened back then. Also, the nephew probably would have been at the house if he knew his uncle was visiting.

All three Fall River newspapers, the New Bedford Standard-Times and the Providence Journal all reported versions of the police/reporter interview with Mrs. Emery. The Evening Herald is the only paper that mentions Dr. Bowen visiting the Emery house. For me, that casts a shadow on the veracity of that report. We know Bowen didn't visit the Emery's after 11am and we seemingly know that Morse was at the Emery house after 11 am. So unless half dozen or more people are mistaken or involved in a conspiracy, they did not almost run into each other when Morse left the Emery house.

We don't know much about Mrs. Emery or Anna Borden, but being dragged into a murder investigation and having police and newspaper reporters showing up repeatedly asking for a bunch of details concerning what at the time would have been mundane, unrememberable details might have caused confusion and stress within the Emery household. A couple mixed up memories would seem almost expected.

Well put! I see the Globe has Mrs Emery fixing the time not upon Bowen’s arrival. That’s a great find.
Newspaper articles are refreshing, but sometimes hard to discern facts from fiction, or like you say, mixed up memories.
Just when something seems a new revelation, it usually is only a deception because everything seems to have been covered or thought upon to no avail.
I suppose that will keep folks searching for clues.

Off topic, but I recall a video discussing how old clothing was used for all sorts of things during Lizzie’s day, and not destroyed so quickly. The dress Lizzie burned wasn’t that old, and had value for different uses around the house, or personal hygiene.
I recall Lizzie was tearing or ripping (can’t remember which) the dress before the burning which would indicate she wanted to totally consume it all, even the unstained areas that would have value.
Additionally, only a woman would wear a dress, and the dress was hers.
I imagine Mrs Churchill would know just how odd the incident was during those days, in addition to the police asking her about the dresses.
She strikes me as a woman who was almost in shock at all that happened, and struggled to support Lizzie in the beginning, but wouldn’t betray her own ethics and integrity.
Occam’s Razor certainly seems the most useful tool throughout the case.

Kat and I had the 'reuse of clothing' debate not long ago. My main 'evidence' was Bridget testifying that Abby used Andrew's old handkerchiefs as dust rags. Emma testified that the sisters did not use old dresses for rags. I pretty much ignore all of Emma's testimony since it is her sister on trial.
I think Kat tends to not think they reused old dresses.

The dress burning on its own might not be the most compelling circumstantial evidence against Lizzie, but when you add it to the mysterious note, failure to bolt from the house with a murderer lose, visiting Alice Russell, suggesting Bridget to go shopping (which never happened before), the second solo trip to the cellar, the evolving alibi story, being admittedly in the house when Abby killed, front door locked.....I could go on....it is just too much for me not to conclude that Lizzie had a leading role in the murders. As I've mentioned before, I do think it possible that she had a little help. I think help from someone outside the family is most likely.

Do you have a subscription to newspapers.com?

I feel the same about Emma, why use old nasty hankerchiefs and not dresses-/doesn’t make sense to me.

Sorry. No, I was just thinking about getting a subscription the other day. I’ve just been googling different topics for the case.

Newspapers.com is a really enjoyable research tool.

Do you use Familysearch.com? Its a free ancestory website. Allows you to find birth, death, marriage, census, etc. info. Its free and I don't think provides much less than Ancestory.com. Kat finds wills and probate info on Ancestory, but that is about the only difference.

Another good (free) tool are the Fall RIver City Directories.

That’s good information. Thank you. I’ll probably use those sites in the future.

Newspapers.com provides access to the archives of all three Fall River Papers and even the FR Monitor (which ceased publication in the 50's I believe), the New Bedford Evening Standard and the Providence, RI paper.