Lizzie Borden Society Forum

PH (new) page 439
Any thoughts on why Dr Bowen has absolutely no opinion of when the two parties had died , or the “Diifference IN TIME” either the day of , or now on August 30?
A medical doctor and friend of the family has no idea…Hmm
Is he that detached from general observation?

Here's a bit more of the surrounding testimony. I get the impression that he didn't want to be the one to give that opinion, that he didn't have the expertise, or that he didn't do anything that was definitive (liver temperature, digestion, etc.). I think he is right that although it was obvious on sight that Abby died considerably earlier than Andrew (dried blood, cold skin temp vs. dripping blood and warm skin temp) - I don't think Dr. Bowen had any way to be sure enough to give a medically sound time difference. I think it was the digestion that gave the most accurate time.

I would have contested this statement, in part, by Dr. Bowen:

I have no means, myself, of judging whether there was any difference in the time of their death, or not, no reliable opinion, no reliable information, no reliable way of possessing any that I know of myself, or that was used that day there.

I would have pressed him on how long skin temp takes to drop under those conditions and for blood to dry. It would likely have been a back and forth and maybe he could have gotten Dr. Bowen to say something like at least 30 minutes or something like that, but I think Dr. Bowen would have pushed back with it only being an opinion and that he could not give exact time ranges.

Melvin Adams The first time you went up with Dr. Dolan, was there then any examination made about the character of the wounds, or the blood; or was that the second time?
Seabury Bowen I could not say whether it was the first or second time, I am sure.
Melvin Adams Did you form any opinion as to how long these people had been dead?
Seabury Bowen At that time I supposed they had been dead only a short time.
Melvin Adams What do you mean by "only a short time"?
Seabury Bowen I should say a half an hour.
Melvin Adams Did you form any opinion as to whether there was any essential difference in the time of their dying?
Seabury Bowen I did not at that time.
Melvin Adams Have you any opinion now?
Seabury Bowen I ought to have; I have heard opinions enough.
Melvin Adams Have you any opinion that you would care to express?
Hosea Knowlton Based upon a medical examination.
Melvin Adams That you care to express, based on what you have seen?
Seabury Bowen That would be merely supposition, or opinion.
Melvin Adams In consequence of what you saw there.
Seabury Bowen Well, yes.
Melvin Adams What is your opinion?
Seabury Bowen At what time do you wish to know? What time do you wish me to be at 12 o'clock or one o'clock?
Melvin Adams If you formed an opinion at any time when those parties had died, and an opinion as to the difference in the time of dying, I should like to know when it was you formed it, and what your opinion is, if you have it now, if it is something that sticks to you.
Seabury Bowen I have no means, myself, of judging whether there was any difference in the time of their death, or not, no reliable opinion, no reliable information, no reliable way of possessing any that I know of myself, or that was used that day there.
Melvin Adams Or that was used that day?
Seabury Bowen Or that was used that day.
Melvin Adams Either by yourself, or anybody in your presence?
Seabury Bowen So far as I know.

I’d say your analogy is as acceptable as any.
The 30 minute gap is interesting though.
That would tell the layman that Abby was probably still warm, which we gather is probably not so, given all the testimony to the contrary.

I think I wasn't clear enough - I think that Bowen was so unwilling to get pinned down with a time difference the only time difference, if any, he would agree to is the time difference that anything shorter than would be unreasonable. I don't think anyone could reasonably argue that it was less than 30 minutes so Bowen would have a hard lower limit - the upper limit is medically unbounded since the eyewitnesses who saw her alive around 9AM are already within the plausible time difference.

Abby was not warm, someone testified to it. I'll try to find it.

The clearest sworn trial testimony is Dr. William A. Dolan, Trial Vol. I, page 861–862.
He was asked about Abby’s “bodily heat” and said:

“I felt the body with my hand and it was much colder than that of Mr. Borden.”

Then he specified what he touched:
“Touched her head and hand.”

Immediately after that, he described Abby’s blood as “coagulated and of dark color,” with the blood on the head “matted and practically dry,” unlike Andrew’s, which was still oozing.

A corroborating version appears in the Preliminary Hearing, in Dolan’s testimony:

“Her bodily warmth externally was not near as marked as that of Mr. Borden.”

That passage is tied to his estimate that Abby had been dead “anywhere from an hour to an hour and a half” when he saw her, and that he saw her within two or three minutes after first seeing Andrew.

I was kinda hoping Bowen would have given us a bit more such as body temperature, conditions of blood appearances, but nevertheless it seems a proper time gap was successfully documented.