Lizzie Borden Society Forum

Reading through Spencer’s CALB, it seems the mattresses in the sisters rooms were not lifted until Saturday afternoon.
Spencer noted that Emma’s room had been looked into by several officers, but not entered.
On page 353 Spencer noted that Hilliard looked behind the lounge, so hopefully he also looked under it.
Strangely the bureaus weren’t searched at that time, so I assume they were searched later on Saturday.
It is bothering that so much time had passed before proper searches were made, and valuable evidence possibly lost.

There’s also some interesting comments about the wooden water tank that fed roof water to the clothes press as Hilliard termed it on the second floor.
However the question posed to Hilliard was about city water on that floor.

page 353
Hilliard was now brought back to the stand for further questioning. In the brief search he did early Saturday afternoon, Hilliard was most concerned about the beds in Lizzie's room and Emma's room. The beds were stripped and the mattresses were raised in order to look under them. The bureaus were not searched at that time, but Hilliard did look behind the lounge in Lizzie's room.

Here's bit more for us to consider. Alice described the search of Emma's room and apparently the officer did not open the bundle, but pushed against it to feel for a hatchet or something hard?

Q. Do you wish to answer the question?

A. Yes, sir. I think one of the officers took the keys that lay on the bureau after Miss
Lizzie had left and unlocked one or two drawers in her bureau, and didn't search any
farther there. I think they opened what she called her toilet room, pulled the portiere one
side, just looked there a little. I don't know how much they searched. I don't think very
much; and they went into Miss Emma's room and looked around, and opened the
cubboard door in her room, and I remember one of the officers pressing against a bundle
after he shut it, I think so, some pillow or blanket, something of that kind, and the bed
was taken to pieces. That is all that I saw.

Here are some photos and measurements. Emma's room (Lizzie's room from about age 12 - 30) is 9' 8" x 8' 5" and the closet (or cupboard as it is sometimes referred to) is 13 inches deep. I put my size 11 shoe there for comparison. The inside is currently all plastered and looks original. There is nowhere to really hide anything as far as I could tell. Everyone can judge the plaster, wood, and hooks to see if they think they are original.

Cool photos!
Plaster looks pretty old. Probably is original in my opinion.

Here, this is less vertigo-inducing. Notice the woodwork for the moulding on the door between Lizzie and Emma's bedrooms. That is a completely interior door between the two rooms, not out to a hallway landing.

I'm thinking the intent of this thread is trying to figure out what needed to be hidden, what was likely hidden, where to hide things, etc. I'll number some theories:

An outside killer could presumably walk out of the house with everything, perhaps wearing a dark tweed or wool - something that blood would not stand out against. In that case, we have nothing to ponder in a search of the house.

Assuming it was someone in the house, Lizzie or Bridget, we'd likely need to hide a dress and a hatchet. Maybe wipe down, burn or hide some leather gloves, a sleeping bonnet, winter scarf, or other wrap.

Thoughts:

1. The slop pails are large enough to completely submerge a 12 inch handle hatchet.

2. Dress under a dress seems a bit farfetched, but Lizzie did stop Alice from loosening her dress, so not totally absurd.

3. Hide it in the hollow (wire or paper mache) body of a dress stand with a dress or dress material pinned up and unlikely to be disassembled by those Fall River police.

4. A known hidey-hole in the basement - loose bricks, loose boards, dropped down a wall (access panels for window counterweights, chimney access, ventilation shafts, plumbing access, etc.

5. A water tank.

6. Out in the barn

7. In the wood pile

8. On the Crowe barn roof

9. Under a dress skirt, since a pat down was out of the question

I thought of #3 while in Emma's (Lizzie's former) bedroom looking at the more modern dress stand, but the 1890s wire frame and paper mache dress stands are also hollow.

The photos are of the basement with the loose boards being what you see when you look straight up from the top of the basement stairs at the staircase going to Andrew and Abby's bedroom.

The door jamb looks as if they couldn’t find the right size door, and the carpenter added to the existing jamb to make the opening smaller. Unless the door is original, then it’s a strange looking job for sure.

Your hiding areas all seem plausible, and it’s quite original about the dress stand, not something a man would probably think of.
I never gave the two dress idea much credit either—-too sloppy.

Just today I was thinking how the killer had to place the weapon in some sort of carrying device before leaving each room where it was used.
In my opinion a towel alone would be too sloppy as well.
Asumming the same weapon was used in both crimes, it had to make it downstairs to the hiding spot, used again, then leave the sitting room without one drop leaving a trail.
To me that took some planning.

Awesome pictures, I wonder if the wash basin is original.

I know most of us love photos, and we are here to try to preserve a bit of history, so here are a few more.

There was a lot of creative masonry and carpentry building that house. No cookie cutter 2x4s and drywall. Here is the laundry room basement window facing the back yard just to the right (south) of the basement walk-up backyard stairs, the area of the sitting room floor (the basement ceiling) under where Andrew was murdered. Lastly, the improvised - add more until it fits - door holder at the top of the stairs to the 3rd floor right in front of Bridget's bedroom.

The door holder is classic.
Thanks for posting the cool pics