Lizzie Borden Society Forum

Let’s assume Fleet and Wilson are correct in their PH and Trial testimony.
Lizzie tells Fleet she last sees Abby making the bed in the guest room around 9 o’clock, confirmed by Wilson.

Lizzie also testified she last saw Abby downstairs.

So here’s my point.
Lizzie has to come back upstairs to see Abby making the bed, and both observations time wise can’t be true .

If all the above is correct, does this at least imply that Lizzie is revealing she may have killed Abby before coming downstairs to have her coffee and cookies?
Maybe not, but does it imply that Lizzie herself killed Abby upon her (Lizzie’s) first trip back upstairs?

The red flag is Lizzie’s departure from this narrative.
Minnehan had passed away, but would probably have confirmed the conversation in my opinion.

Wilson testified Lizzie claimed she last saw Abby about 9 o’clock making the bed, so this also could potentially move the clock backwards concerning Abby’s demise.

Lizzie has to have obtained information about the pillow shams, note, etc… before seeing Abby in the guest room, otherwise this can’t be the last time she saw Abby, unless Lizzie obtained the information in a conversation with Abby in the guest room while Abby was making the bed.
If as testified it was about 9 o’clock, when Lizzie last saw Abby in the guest room , when was the conversation about the room being all closed up except for the pillow shams?

For me this raises the possibility there may have been discussion between Lizzie and Abby in the guest room just prior to Abby’s death.

In correction to the above post.exchange the word “first “ for “last” on the third line.
Sorry for the confusion.

Based on when Morse left along with Bridget and Lizzie's testimonies, 8:50 is the time usually viewed as when Lizzie left her bedroom. Bridget also tells us that she overheard Abby & Lizzie talking in the dining room as Lizzie made her way to the kitchen.

It would make sense to me that Lizzie either saw, heard or conversed with Abby in the guest room prior to coming downstairs, perhaps before Morse left. Abby then made her way downstairs, with Lizzie following shortly after leading to the dining room encounter.

Of course, the 'last time' Lizzie would see Abby would be in the guest room as she killed her (assuming Lizzie is guilty).

I would agree.

Also, If Lizzie didn’t obtain the information that Abby would need to come back upstairs a second time (from Abby when she saw Abby in the guest room ) presuming it was before she (Lizzie) came down for breakfast, how would Lizzie know Abby would be returning to the guest room a second time,
Lizzie could not have overheard it, because Abby hadn’t given the information out before she finished making the bed.
Neither could Lizzie see inside the guest room, if it was all closed up, door shut, as Lizzie testified.

Would Lizzie—if guilty—simply come downstairs and leave it to chance that Abby would have to return a second time?


The reason I point this out again, is that Lizzie stated she last saw Abby making the bed.
That would theoretically be before Abby came downstairs and Bridget overheard them, because according to Lizzie—the room was all finished except for the shams. (Assuming that’s the conversation Bridget overheard.)
I just can’t see Lizzie leaving it to chance, IF she is guilty as you say.

Does this appear to place Lizzie in a position that required her to abandon her comments to Fleet?

I tend to believe Fleet/Wilson are accurate in their recollection and report.

What do you mean by "abandon her comments to Fleet"?

Just that she didn’t repeat seeing Abby in the guest room after her initial admission to Fleet:Wilson.