Lizzie Borden Society Forum

In Edwin Porters, The Fall River Tragedy he writes that John V. Morse ate two pears before going in to the north door of the Borden household on the morning of the murders. Can this be true when you take into consideration all of the activity going on at the house that morning. One would think that Uncle John would procced directly into the house to see what was going on unless he knew what was going on?????

ate two pears..didnt Lizzie say somethiing about being out in the barn eating pears? Im wondering if this pears thing was a secret code in the family for something else. I knew a family in which going down to the basement to "check on the plumbing" meant something else.

Morse said he picked up a few pears and ate some of a pear but Sawyer at the door did not see him eating anything when he saw him.
At the trial, Morse flat out says he did not see anyone in the yard from where he was at this tree, which was more southerly behind the house.
Maybe everyone was in the barn at just that two or three minutes?

First of all.... I would like to have been able to sample one of those pears.... As much action as those pear trees got they must have been delicious!

I believe that John intends us to think he just moseyed on in with his perfect alibi and healthy appetite.

wintressanna @ Sat Mar 19, 2005 9:14 pm wrote:ate two pears..didnt Lizzie say somethiing about being out in the barn eating pears? Im wondering if this pears thing was a secret code in the family for something else. I knew a family in which going down to the basement to "check on the plumbing" meant something else.

Well if you think along those lines, it's interesting that Bridget says she didn't like pears.

Are the pear trees still at the house? I am guessing not after all
these years but you never know.I figured I would ask anyway.

I know of one out front- Eugene ate a pear from there!
But a small tree- not original.
I think that a new one was planted in back up against the fence recently?

That sounds like an excuse for listening in to what people were saying.
Morse knew what happened, the message from Lizzie via Dr. Bowen.

RayS @ Tue Feb 13, 2007 6:08 pm wrote:That sounds like an excuse for listening in to what people were saying.
Morse knew what happened, the message from Lizzie via Dr. Bowen.

If he wanted to hear what people were saying, why hang out in the back yard eating a pear, all alone? Why not go out front and mix with the crowd, or go inside the house and listen there? You may be right about Morse having known what had happened, and Bowen may have had some part to play, but the explanation of "listening in" doesn't make much sense given he was alone in the backyard, as far as I'm aware.

sguthmann @ Wed Feb 14, 2007 12:03 am wrote:

RayS @ Tue Feb 13, 2007 6:08 pm wrote:That sounds like an excuse for listening in to what people were saying.
Morse knew what happened, the message from Lizzie via Dr. Bowen.

If he wanted to hear what people were saying, why hang out in the back yard eating a pear, all alone? Why not go out front and mix with the crowd, or go inside the house and listen there? You may be right about Morse having known what had happened, and Bowen may have had some part to play, but the explanation of "listening in" doesn't make much sense given he was alone in the backyard, as far as I'm aware.

My assumption is that access to the property was limited, but police were in the back yard. Also the open windows.
I'm using my "What Would Ray Do" logic here.

The question of how many of these police were in the yard in uniform has been something I've wanted to ask lately. Does anyone know?

Kat @ Wed Feb 14, 2007 6:34 pm wrote:The question of how many of these police were in the yard in uniform has been something I've wanted to ask lately. Does anyone know?

I don't know the times w/o reference. But as soon as Lt. Allen returned w/ news about the murders, several policemen were sent there.
I figure one in the backyard, one in front to keep people out. Then the Chief etc arrived about 1pm. (Correct me if I'm wrong.)

It was the day of the police picnic and I think some of the cops responded in plain clothes.
Harry probably knows. I think he responded to a question like this a few years ago.

I posted this on the uniforms on April 6, 2006 on the last page at:

viewtopic.php?p=28554#28554

"Regarding the police officers in uniform on the 4th. I have only been able to find information on 5 of them. Officers Allen, Doherty and Wilson were in civilian clothes. Officers Harrington and Mullaly in uniform.

In Porter's Fall River Tragedy, page 8:

"... Inside the yard and house, policemen in uniform and in citizen's garb, hurried to and fro with an air of mystery which was becoming them, for to all appearances the assassin had vanished as completely as if the earth had opened and swallowed him."

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The most testimony regarding the uniforms comes from John Donnelly, the hack driver at the Preliminary hearing. He was not able to identify which specific officers were in uniform but claimed to see from "between seven to eight" after his visit to the barn. It was Donnelly who claimed to have seen the impression in the hay. He also claimed to have talked with Southard Miller in the Borden's yard. Miller had said that he had never gone across the street. ..."

Dr. Bowen didn't recognize Allen as a police officer as he was not in uniform.

Thanks Har! Now all we need is the time these men in uniform were there, compared to when Morse was there!