Lizzie Borden Society Forum

Where did the killer hide the weapon? I have never been as intrigued by the question of where the killer hid in between the murders, although if there are theories about that I'd be interested to hear those as well, but I think Lizzie did it. So I don't think the killer had to hide in between the murders. My main question is where did she hide the weapon in between the murders? There are actually many possibilities. A weapon is a lot easier to hide than a person. My belief is it was put in the closet in the dining-room in between the killings,possibly wrapped in something, and then more thoroughly cleaned and disposed of after the deed was done. I know there is not really any testimony or hard evidence that can be used to prove any one theory, but speculation can often lead to a likely theory.

I don't think Lizzie did it...today anyway. But as for the weapon, I think that MOST likely it was 'out of there' before Lizze could say "Do come over, some one has killed Father...". OR...IF it is still in the house, it is buried somewhere in the laundry room. OR (last one), the handleless hatchet is IT. I don't have specific sources to cite for my thoughts on this. I believe they come from a combination of a variety of things...Rebello, testimony, Lincoln, posts in the forum, documentary videos, and currently I am reading Radin.


Tracy...

If it was Lizzie, she could have kept that hatchet anywhere. Bridget was outside washing windows and not likely to snoop about--especially up-front-stairs.

Coincidentally speaking-- Perhaps this is why Abby needed to be killed there--it was a part of the house Bridget wouldn't wander to.

I don't know......Bridget worked in that house for 2 YEARS. You don't think she went to check out the second floor even once when no one was around?

People have a natural curious wonder......some down right nosey.

This happens when people come to visit and look and use the bathroom and "curiously" check out your medicine cabinet or underneath the bathroom sink.

Just because she wasn't allowed to go there sdoesn't mean she didn't.

Perhaps... But with Lizzie home?

Unless she and Lizzie were in cahoots and L allowed her to roam the house at will, which I doubt-- she probably wouldn't have sneaked up there that day....

I don't know about between the murders- I suppose in her room. She didn't come down right away when Andrew arrived, according to Bridget. She could have been preparing.

But I have a little scenario in my mind that after the killings, during the search, that she had the weapon in her lounge in her room, or was lying upon it there. She didn't get up when the searchers were in her room. And the door was locked until she went upstairs, unaccompanied.

After that, maybe Bowen removed it, or Lizzie kept it hidden until that night, burying it in the cellar- or hiding it there when she went down alone in the night. She went to the sink area- maybe it was there?

I think it was on Saturday while the girls were at the funeral that the police finally searched her lounge. It makes me think Hilliard had an idea it was there or had been- I think it was searched specifically.

But I have a little scenario in my mind that after the killings, during the search, that she had the weapon in her lounge in her room, or was lying upon it there. She didn't get up when the searchers were in her room. And the door was locked until she went upstairs, unaccompanied. (Kat)

Now that's interesting! -- that Lizzie went up alone. I didn't know that. I wonder why Alice Russell didn't accompany her? According to Lizzie the ubiquitous "they" took her upstairs. (Inquest, Lizzie)

Then, at the Prelim. Dr. Bowen says he "had her friend Miss Russell take her up to her room". (p. 429)

But at trial, Alice isn't so sure:
"Q. When she went up stairs did she go up alone or did anyone go with her?
A. I am not sure.
Q. Did you go with her?
A. I have always thought so; I am not sure. (Trial,383)

It would seem like the right thing to do, wouldn't it -- to escort your bereaved friend to her room? And you'd think if Lizzie rebuffed Alice's offer to accompany her -- Alice would be more inclined to remember that than to continue thinking she take her upstairs.

How did Lizzie manage to break free from her solicitous companions?

Well, I think she already had the weapon hid after she killed Abbey, and I do think Lizzie did it. She probably had it in her room along with any other bloodied article of clothing in her closet or lounge area. I think she knew nobody would be coming up to her room during that time. I mean, Bridget never went upstairs, Morse was not going to show up at her bedroom door, but she and Abbey had reasons to be up there. She also had time to re-arrange things if you will. After killing Andrew, she probably returned it to that area, or disposed of it in the cellar or barn. Of course, Dr. Bowen could have removed it when he left to supposedly go notify the authorities?

Inquest
Alice Russell
A. I dont know whether I suggested, or who suggested, her going up stairs; but I know she went up stairs.
Q. Did you go up with her?
A. I dont remember that.
Q. Were you up stairs?
A. Yes Sir I was up there. I think if I did not go with her, I

149 (56)

must have been there very soon after.
Q. Did she go straight to her room, so far as you remember?
A. Yes Sir.
Q. Did she take off any of her clothes?
A. I dont know what I was doing, but I came into the room, and found her fastening a pink wrapper on.

--Alice was showing the officers around downstairs and the Borden room upstairs during the time she temporarily lost Lizzie. Mrs. Churchill went home I think just after Morse came. She probably had dinner to make, and I do believe Mrs. Dr. Bowen probably had dinner to make- life went on...

It was after Morse came that Lizzie went up, so Alice was busy with the police and Mrs. Churchill had left, and Mrs. Dr. Bowen was told to go home. I don't know where Bridget was.

I think after Alice saw Lizzie in the pink wrapper in her own room, Lizzie sent her back downstairs with the errand to speak to Bowen about the undertaker, which took again a little bit of time?

Bridget may also have been involved with the police at that time -- in the cellar showing them where the hatchets were or something.

Perhaps Alice and Bowen both felt Alice should have taken Lizzie upstairs and that's why Bowen told her to and why Alice always thought she had.

Kat made me think of this:
What if Andrew would have been found killed in his room with the only room key in his pocket, and the bloodied murder weapon was found locked into his safe?

what was found in Andrew's safe anyway?

At the Prelim., Alice says it was after she herself returned to the room from her downstairs errand telling Bowen Lizzie's wishes about the undertaker that Lizzie came out of Emma's room after just changing her clothes. She left that part out of the inquest, but I believe she was somewhat interrupted at that point in the questioning. They went off on a tangent.

Prelim
Alice
383
Q. Now was there some conversation there in consequence of which you left the room?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. Will you state what that conversation was?
A. She said, "When it is necessary for an undertaker I want Winwood."

Q. What did you do?
A. I went down stairs and waited in the hall to see Dr. Bowen.

Q. And did you see him?
A. After waiting some time, I sent for him. He didn't come through there, and I sent for him and he came.

Q. After you had an interview with him where did you go?
A. Upstairs again.

Q. Did you go to her room?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. What did you see when you went to the room?
A. She was coming out of Miss Emma's room, tying the ribbons of a wrapper.

--But what was Lizzie doing ordering the undertakers when that was Emma's job as the elder "Miss Borden?"
Otherwise, it still seems as if Alice was sent away on a bogus errand to buy more time for Lizzie?

To find out what was in the safe, we might have to resort to newspapers? It's a good question.

Kat @ Mon Apr 25, 2005 12:27 am wrote: Q. What did you see when you went to the room?
A. She was coming out of Miss Emma's room, tying the ribbons of a wrapper.

--But what was Lizzie doing ordering the undertakers when that was Emma's job as the elder "Miss Borden?"
Otherwise, it still seems as if Alice was sent away on a bogus errand to buy more time for Lizzie?

That's a good question Kat. I have always wondered, and it has been wondered by many others as well, why Lizzie was coming out of Emma's room? What was she doing in there? The whole scenario of Lizzie sending Alice to talk to Dr. Bowen does seem as though she wanted some time alone in her room. She could've waited to talk to Dr. Bowen about the matter herself. By sending Alice to downstairs to talk to him, was it also an attempt at stalling Dr. Bowen from coming to her room?

I have wondered about that also, Lizzie getting dressed in Emma's room. Was it a modesty thing, perhaps getting changed in there in case Alice came back into the room? Was it because Lizzie had items to secrete in Emma's room, I'm thinking of that blanket thing found on the floor of Emma's closet on Saturday.

Trial Volume 1, page 412 Alice Russell on the stand:

Q. Do you wish to answer the question?
A. Yes, sir. I think one of the officers took the keys that lay on the bureau after Miss Lizzie had left and unlocked one or two drawers in her bureau, and didn't search any farther there. I think they opened what she called her toilet room, pulled the portiere one side, just looked there a little. I don't know how much they searched. I don't think very much; and they went into Miss Emma's room and looked around, and opened the cubboard (sic) door in her room, and I remember one of the officers pressing against a bundle after he shut it, I think so, some pillow or blanket, something of that kind, and the bed was taken to pieces. That is all I saw.

Sounds like that blanket or whatever wasn't searched very thoroughly, a blanket in August that wasn't needed. Could Lizzie have rolled something up or folded it up in there thinking no one would look in there or need the item. And why was it on the floor of the closet? Shouldn't it have been up on a shelf if there was one in the closet?

Susan, Miss Lincoln has made a lot of that bundle, too. Has anybody mentioned the hatchet on Crowe's roof?

Yes, Lincoln does dwell on that blanket in the closet. I'm wondering if it was on the floor. I thought about that this morning when I had to give an extra push to close a closet door because I have pillows and blankets stored on the top shelf.

Alice's testimony doesn't actually place the blanket or whatever on the floor. Lincoln does, though.

***Yes, Lincoln does dwell on that blanket in the closet. I'm wondering if it was on the floor.***

you know, it seems that way to me too.

reading that bit of testimony there, it sounds more to me like it was simply an overstuffed drawer. but there is this image and it comes from lincoln?

the lincolnisms should be compiled by someone who can stand to delve into that now -- but then, we're not done compiling the list, i suppose. this would make a worthwhile article though.

Oh Gawd!!!

Who is "someone?"
We don't finish things. We didn't finish the Lincoln book in the Book Club, even.

I always thought it was on the floor, as well.
Anyway, it's a pretty shallow closet...Has Miss Lincoln seen it?

I think we did finish the book club thing. I will go find the 'end' and post the link. Hmmm...now where did I leave it ?


Tracy...

OK...I think this link might be it...the end of 'Lincoln' in the Borden Book Club I know it was rather hard to do the book club thing, but I sure learned a lot from doing the reading itself, and from finding out what you all had to think about it as well. I am up for another one if anyone else is. I am just starting Radin if anyone is interested...or another one ?

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Tracy...

Gimme a break - are police going to see a blanket and not examine it for blood?

I remember Fairhaven guy saying he didn't like dealing with people who were inexperienced with the case, and I stood up for the inexperienced, but I won't put up for people who are simply stupid.

diana @ Tue Apr 26, 2005 11:46 am wrote:Yes, Lincoln does dwell on that blanket in the closet. I'm wondering if it was on the floor. I thought about that this morning when I had to give an extra push to close a closet door because I have pillows and blankets stored on the top shelf.

Alice's testimony doesn't actually place the blanket or whatever on the floor. Lincoln does, though.

Thanks for that, Diana. Ugh, I guess I still have Lincoln on the brain, you're correct, Alice doesn't say it was on the floor, but, Lincoln did.


Yes, Kat, Lincoln supposedly visited the Borden house while writing her book and did go upstairs and look around. If Emma's closet is that narrow of a space, why cram a pillow or blanket in there that makes the door difficult to close? Lincoln aside, makes me wonder still if that item belonged in there or was something that Lizzie had placed there herself the day of the murders?

You finished Lincoln Tracy, but we didn't finish!
For some reason I think maybe it was the only closet within Lizzie's area of upstairs which didn't lock or need locking? If so, would Lizzie put something incriminating in there?
This is off-the-wall but-- I seem to remember a source that has Emma saying she had left no bundle in there. Probably a newspaper- oh well..

My apologies Kat. I thought the people who wanted to, had already made their final comments. You are right, it should be finished. I have never finished a book discussion in an online situation before, so what would be the best way to take care of it ? Sorry, I am so dorky on this subject.


Tracy...

THE LOCK

from Harry in Archives:

Here's an item in Lincoln that I have not read anywhere else. Page 126 of the paperback version:

"In connection with all this paper-burning, it is well to mention here that the broken lock that Andrew had picked up from Mr. Clegg's floor and dropped in his pocket was found on the mantel. It had been rolled in an unaddressed white mailing wrapper like those that lay in a stack, the top few addressed to Andrew, on a small table in the sitting room."

That's the first I ever heard of the broken lock being found. She doesn't say who found it or her source. Has anybody read that anywhere else?

__________________


i still know of no other source.

Please don't be sorry. Maybe people thought they did finish?
It didn't seem all-wrapped up to me though- maybe I'm wrong and everyone is finished?

.....

I don't recall anything more on the lock.

That would be a biggie if true haulover.

I guess what bothers me about this room, is that there are no conclusions. Can we say that, for example, Uncle John left at 8:10 Am, and then anything about Uncle John is very circumspect, or say he didn't leave until 9:00, but draw a line. Just on that instance there would be a lot of questions, but if it would be said that we believe this, then afterword testimony would mean something. In this example if we say that Uncle John is gone, then how can he hear Abby tell Bridget to wash the windows. Then we have to conclude that since Uncle John was gone when this was said, he has to have something to do with the crime. Simple but unsaid. And that washing the windows had something to do with the crime. Simple but unsaid. And that the window washing happened usually on Thursday had something to do with the crime. Simple but unsaid.
There are not that many issues, but there are a few big issues, and a lot of little issues getting the way.
So I think the biggest issue might be why didn't Bridget just run away when she heard Andrew was attacked?

The simple solution to the "why didn't Bridget run" question is that, if innocent, she had no idea that both Andrew and Abby had been chopped many times with a hatchet.

She was called down from her rest by Lizzie calling that somebody did something to father. She was told to run for a doctor. She did. When the doctor wasn't there, she was told to fetch Alice Russell. She did. There wasn't really time for Bridget to think about what was happening until there were already several other people at the house. I don't think she could have run away then.

Bridget doesn't strike me as the hysterical type. She was afraid to go upstairs alone for the sheets, but she seems to be pretty well adjusted. Her dedication to her employers, alive and/or dead, was strong.

I mostly agree with you, Fairhavenman, but in an emergency situation the call is to "get help." Help is usually police.
If Bridget didn't ask Mrs. Bowen to call the police she is involved in the crime. There are no two ways about it. Bridget was involved in some way with the crime and her testimony is junk. So lets look at it from another angle. Bridget is the one who closed all the windows that day, including the guest room window and shades, which she never could have reached from the outside, or Uncle John closed them, and according to the man Dr. Bowen tried to show Abby's body off to he could hardly see, had to feel, for her head.
Is Bridget a liar?
Where was Bridget the night before the murders?
If the back key to the front door was in Lizzie's pocket do you think Bridget would have told that?
Having the back key to the front door would have knocked out one exit route for Mrs. Borden. Now if Lizzie had that key, do you think Bridget would have said so? Why did Bridget "fumble" with the door? The term "oh psah" would more normally mean, "oh, that's it, or oh, there it is," than anything else. So if Lizzie was on the steps at the time, and gave Bridget the key, that would solve that question. But then again you now have two people lieing about what went on. This is a Bridget lie. She never explained why she fumbled with the front door. She never said, "oh, I just didn't have the bolt right," she just said she fumbled, less of truth on an important point. The reason she didn't tell the truth probably was that it was bad! So now Bridget is a liar because the only way she would have fumbled with that door was because of something unusual, and she didn't mention that.
So, why would the last time Bridget saw Abby mean anything?

John:

you ARE thinking, aren't you? i don't quite get it but i do hear it. i'm not sure about your word usage or phraseology sometimes. you keep reasoning/informing & entertaining/playing at the same time -- i mention this primarily because you're doing it for longer than i would have at first predicted. possibly you're getting better at it.

"back key to the front door" -- what is this? please explain.

from your writing, i gather two ideas i don't think i had thought about:

1. that abby was basically imprisoned within the house that morning, unable to get in her own room. nor was she able to leave the house because she would have needed to change to a suitable public dress. in effect, she is basically waiting for andrew to return to get the mantel key that someone has stolen?

2. that the incident where bridget curses and lizzie laughs is cover for a very involved interaction between the two of them, which involves both doors being locked -- the two of them running to their places, so to speak, for letting andrew in?

Haulover @ Thu Apr 28, 2005 2:50 pm wrote:John:

you ARE thinking, aren't you? i don't quite get it but i do hear it. i'm not sure about your word usage or phraseology sometimes. you keep reasoning/informing & entertaining/playing at the same time -- i mention this primarily because you're doing it for longer than i would have at first predicted. possibly you're getting better at it.

"back key to the front door" -- what is this? please explain.

from your writing, i gather two ideas i don't think i had thought about:

1. that abby was basically imprisoned within the house that morning, unable to get in her own room. nor was she able to leave the house because she would have needed to change to a suitable public dress. in effect, she is basically waiting for andrew to return to get the mantel key that someone has stolen?

2. that the incident where bridget curses and lizzie laughs is cover for a very involved interaction between the two of them, which involves both doors being locked -- the two of them running to their places, so to speak, for letting andrew in?

Both of these are interesting points. If someone had taken the key from the mantle she would not have been able to change to go out. The picture of them "running to their places" also is an interesting one. It ties in with the imagine Kat gave of Bridget washing the window in the sitting-room and being able to see Andrew coming. So is she watching for him and then "here he comes, get ready?". If she fumbled with the door she may have been trying to keep him from trying to open it himself for some reason? Maybe trying to stall him a little from being able to get in to buy a little more time? Fumbling sort of makes me think of being in a hurry, and therefore not really taking the time to work the locks properly. I have talked to people who think she might have been mistaken, that the laugh came from behind her somewhere, and not upstairs. But even with your back turned you can tell if a sound comes from above you or not. And Bridget had just walked through the house. She didn't see Lizzie anywhere. She had just come from the sitting-room where she was washing windows. I don't know, my gut tells me Bridget was no involved. Still I am always willing to work out a scenario to see if it will make me change my mind.

No more clues - I will say though, that the status of the front door has a lot to do with the murders.

Regarding the front door, Bridget is asked:
"Q:Had you ever gone to let Mr. Borden in on any other day at the front door?
A: No sir. I don’t remember.
Q: Let us see if we understand it right. All the time that you lived there did you ever go when he came to the door and couldn’t unlock the door?.
A: I don’t remember.
Q: Don’t remember that you did?
A: No, sir, I don’t.” (Bridget, trial, 281)


This bit of testimony warranted the handwritten note in Mr. Knowlton’s private notebook – “Never had to let Mr. Borden in before”. (source: Knowlton papers, page 378)

***No more clues - I will say though, that the status of the front door has a lot to do with the murders.***

you may or may not know that an astrologer drew this conclusion, with no more specificity than you do.

please respond to my above post.

She never explained why she fumbled with the front door. She never said, "oh, I just didn't have the bolt right," she just said she fumbled, less of truth on an important point.

From Bridget's Preliminary testimony:

Q. What locks on the front door did you find locked when you let him in?
A. The bolt and a common key that I turned on both sides.
Q. Anythingelse?
A. No Sir.
Q. A spring lock?
A. Yes Sir. He had a key.
Q. He unlocked that from the outside?
A. Yes Sir.
Q. Was that spring lock set to lock the door up when it was shut?
A. Yes Sir.
Q. Up to the time you let Mr. Borden in, had you seen Miss Lizzie?
A. She was up stairs at the time I let him in.
Q. Where up stairs?
A. She might be in the hall, for I heard her laugh.
Q. Up the back or front stairs?
A. The front stairs.
Q. At the time you let Mr. Borden in?
A. Yes Sir.
Q. Was that the first you had heard or seen of her since you spoke to her at the back door?
A. Yes Sir.
Q. You had not seen her or Mrs. Borden during the intermediate time?
A. No Sir.
Q. What was the occasion of her laugh?
A. I got puzzled on the door, I said something, and she laughed at it; I supposed that must make her laugh, I dont know.
Q. She laughed when you said something?
A. Yes Sir. I did not expect the door was locked. I went to open it. I was puzzled; I went to unlock it twice.

It sounds to me like Bridget didn't expect all the locks on the front door to be locked when she went to let Andrew in. Perhaps she undid the bolt at the top of the door and went to open it and it wouldn't and then she figured out that the lock under the doorknob with the key in it was locked too. And, though its not mentioned, Bridget was just washing windows with cloths or rags, her hands were probably wet. Could add some "fumbling" with the locks.

The term "oh psah" would more normally mean, "oh, that's it, or oh, there it is," than anything else.

Pshaw, pronounced "p'shaw" or "puhshaw" or even "shaw", is an exclamation of impatience or disgust. It is said to be imitative of the sound one makes when impatient or disgusted - a sharp exhalation and sigh combined into one. It dates all the way back - in writing - to 1673.

From this site: http://www.takeourword.com/TOW161/page2.html

From the Oxford English Dictionary:

Pshaw-int. An exclamation expressing contempt, impatience, or disgust.

Please don't be sorry. Maybe people thought they did finish?
It didn't seem all-wrapped up to me though- maybe I'm wrong and everyone is finished?

Kat brings up a very good point. Let's make sure everyone is through with our discussion of Lincoln via the "Borden Book Club". If anyone wants to continue/finish that discussion, I am certainly up for it. We can even start another topic for it, or add on to the last one.

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Tracy...

Hey Haulover.
In answer to your questions, the front door of the Borden house was "keyed" front and back. That means it took a key to get inside the house from the front walk, and also a key, probably a duplicate, to get outside of the the house from the inside. I am a trained locksmith, and this setup is very unusual, because normally locksmiths are asked about security, and how-to of locks, and I personally don't believe in doing the dual key, and most locksmiths would confer, that it can cut off an emergency exit. It meant that Mrs. Borden could be confronted from anywhere past the side house door towards the front of the house, and she would have no where to go. It meant that anyone could come from the cellar, or the upstairs, and she would, as you say be imprisoned if she was past the side door. If the house windows were closed, it's unlikely anyone would even hear her scream, probably a part of the plan as has been discussed.
Do you think that it's odd that the only time Bridget had to help Andrew get into the house he was murdered?
It's also probably as likely that Lizzie had the mantle key if Andrew hadn't taken it.
So Mrs. Borden was stuck at home and hell visited her on one day.
Bridget is involved mostly because she didn't hear someone being murdered about 45 feet away from her, in Andrew's case, and thumps, screams and noises in Abby's case, while she couldn't have been very far away.
So, Eugene the machine, and I say that respectfully because I knew a girl named "Jean The Machine," and she had to be respected, but that was about all you needed, tell me what you think?

If Abby is basically imprisoned in the house if the room key was taken by Lizzie or a confederate, why did Lizzie invent a note? It only points up the *fact* that Abby could not have gone out because she couldn't change her dress. It therefore points directly to keys and locks- draws attention where none is wanted.

Wow - Kat is thinking. No more what if's. Just facts. Lizzie said there was a note, so there was a note. Was the note more likely to keep Abby in the house, or get her out of the house? For some reason Abby stayed in the house so it must be assumed that the note kept her inside. So she just stayed inside and hell visited her. Then whoever sent the note, and knew about it are culpricates, and that's exactly what occured - two people knew about everything. Two people knew about everything that was going to happen, and one of them was Lizzie, and the other was not Bridget.

The point is why even bring up the note? The note is dangerous- the note was only known about by Lizzie until Bridget overheard her.

Kat @ Fri Apr 29, 2005 2:06 am wrote:The point is why even bring up the note? The note is dangerous- the note was only known about by Lizzie until Bridget overheard her.

My theory on the note was an excuse Lizzie used to explain why she went all morning without seeing Abby and did not find it odd. She thought Abby had "gone out".Otherwise, how would Lizzie explain the fact that she was there all morning but did not see Mrs. Borden, and did not think it odd that she didn't? She did not even see her after Andrew came home, Abby did not come down to greet her husband or talk to him after he got home. This is my theory. As for Lizzie having the key, I don't see how it would call attention to the fact that Abby could not have gone out. Only Lizzie would know she had the key. If she put it back before anyone noticed it was missing, I don't see how it would call attention to anything. All she had to do was take it off the mantle, and after Abby was dead she could replace it and who was there to know?


(Edit: the note actually accomplished two things.It gave Lizzie the excuse as I said above, but it also kept anyone from seeking Abby out until after Andrew was killed. If Andrew went looking for Abby after he got home and stumbled upon her body, how easy of a target would he have been himself at that point? A lot harder than if he simply just laid down to take a nap. Andrew needed to die, and with as little fuss as possible, because Bridget was in the house at that time.)

I'm wondering how Bridget knew where all the axes and hatchets were?

My question was more geared toward a response from john. It has to do with his theory about the key/clothes/locking Abby out of her room.
What you propose makes sense to me Allen.

I'm asking why bring up the note under john's conditions.
Lizzie was also the one to point out that Abby's clothes were not fit to go out in and that she thought Abby would need to change.
So there is a contradiction here- that's what I'm trying to figure out.
Why steal a key so Abby can't go out because she can't change her clothes and then why bring up the note which supposedly called Abby out and then why point out that Mrs. Borden's clothes were not worthy to go out in.

Inquest
Lizzie
80 (37)
I said to her: "Won't you change your dress before you go out?" She had on an old one. She said: "No, this is good enough." That is all I can remember.

I'm not saying none of this could have happened, I just want to know why Lizzie would do and say something so complicated.
It's like there's a missing reason if it happened this way.

Well Kat I know your questions were geared towards John, but John does not seem to be answering. No matter how the murder went down, whether she took the key or didn't take the key, I think had she not mentioned the note she would've been questioned even more closely than she was. It would've looked even more suspicious. I do not think there would be any missing reason if she did indeed take the key, and still brought up the "note". She could claim she thought Abby had gone out, but indeed she must not have gone out. It could be hoped the police would surmise that Abby was killed before having a chance to change her dress or go out on the "sick call". Yet they might believe Lizzie thought she had gone out.I do not believe there would have to be any missing reason, especially since no one had to be aware that Lizzie took the key.

The note, my kingdom for the note!

Abby goes out most days to do the shopping, as a lot of local women did back then and so why does Lizzie need a note to complicate things?
All she has to say to Andrew when he comes home is that Abby is out.

I understand you Allen, it's what is in John's head that I'm trying to get at.
I don't think anyone can explain that to me but he himself. But thank you for your responses.