Lizzie Borden Society Forum

Can't for the life of me find it, but some time ago, we were discussing what late Victorians did with visitors' coats when the houses of the period were not designed with hall closets, as below in Shelley's Maplecroft floorplan---

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I don't think we ever answered the question at the time. But, I completely forgot that they had hall trees---

There is one in the foyer at the B&B.

Didn't the Bordens have a closet or two downstairs? I am thinking that the closet(s) was not a place they would want people's coats, because they would open the door of it and the visitor/s would see inside of it. I know I wouldn't wanna open my downstairs closets in front of anybody.

I remember growing up and in our house, and seeing in movies/tv shows, the host putting all the coats on a bed in one of the bedrooms. I have a bench in the front foyer that works great. But if I had room, I think I could get used to a coat rack pretty quickly.

It seems hall closets went out of fashion during the late Victorian period.

92 is early Victorian.

I've lived in several houses built between 1880-1917, none of which had hall closets.

I suppose hall trees became fashionable at that time.

They have a tendency to become messy...esp if everyone in the household leaves their coats, hats, scarves, etc there all winter.

Yes. the sitting room closet is very deep and goes under the front staircase- somewhere I have read in the prime documents that coats, shawls and hats were in that closet under the stairs on hooks. The hooks in that closet and also in the dining room closet (which is only 13 inches deep) look original. Hall trees usually have an umbrella stand on the botton which have zinc trays for catching drips. Also a small mirror is usually incorporated for checking one's hat and 6 or more pegs for hanging up the hat. I tend to believe these hall trees were more for placing umbrellas, parasols and hats than actual coat hangers for big greatcoats or jackets , juding by the spacing of the pegs.

Bridget, at the Prelim, in answering questions about the lower floor closets said there was one closet in the sitting room that "they kept a basket of clothes in it." Mrs. Borden's bonnet and shawl "was there" . . . and "some clothes belonging to Mr. Borden, I guess." She said "I used to see coats there sometimes, old coats" [of Mr. Borden]. Pages 61-62.

She doesn't specify which closet, nor hooks,but rather mentions this "basket." Sounds musty to me!

I don't remember it being said that keeping that closet clean was anyone's "job" in that house.

Well, the whole sittingroom closet thing is somewhat of a mystery. What is today a bookshelf to the right of the fireplace seems to have been a closet in 1892- there is mention of a "library" in one of these closets and I sort of get the idea it was probably something like a shelf or shelves with some book storage in one of these 2 closet areas. There are currently 2 shelves way in the back of the big understairs closet-so these may be original, and may be the site for the "library" of Borden book titles. As hooks, nails, and pegs were the means to hang up dresses and long garments, there is also a good chance these existing hooks may also be original. They seem to be brass, someone has painted over.

understairs closet


very shallow diningroom closet with similar hooks where I believe it was said Andrew generally hung up his suit coat.

Thanks for the pics.
I love those hooks!

I think we deduced here that the outdoor coat may have been kept in the dining room closet... we talked about Andrew leaving his coat at least in the dining room so the closet makes sense. We had that discussion with you I believe?

And his house cardigan was kept by the kitchen stove just before the door from the kitchen to the sitting room.

I don't remember that about books or Library there in the closet of the sitting room. I recall mention somewhere of Andrew's "Library" but not where it was.

Yes, I do recall the frock coat usually being hung in the diningroom closet, as I have stated above, and the "reefer" being on a nail or peg in the kitchen. I make sure to put this information on the house tour. The fact that the frock coat is found thrown over the arm of the sofa (covered in blood) instead of being hung up in the diningroom has always impressed me as a significant factor. Yes, SOMEWHERE in the source documents, and at the moment I have not got any time to go digging, there is mention of a "library" in the sitting room. Of course library in that era, did not always refer to a huge room with ceiling to floor bookcases and volumes- it was also a word given to a collection of books, i.e. "home library" and a publishing company called "Everyman's Library" which published affordable volumes on popular topics for the home bookshelf. It makes perfect sense that the Borden household collection of books be in the sitting room come to think of it. I have always thought the deep understairs closet with those 2 shelves was the probable place for this collection of family books.
Nearly every family had a household compendium of domestic cures,recipes,etiquette,medical advice, etc. I have quite a collection of these myself from the 1860's-1915. There would usually be a Bible, hymnal, some religious publications, maybe cookbooks, almanacs, maps of the world and geography. If the head of the house were a scholar like Louisa May Alcott's father, Bronson- the library was more extensive with biographies, the classics, philosophy, etc. You can still see his library and books in Concord, Massachusetts at the Alcott home, Orchard House. I enjoy looking at what people read- it says a lot about the person.

Lizzie's book choices sure say a lot about her!

Sorry-duplicate.

Wouldn't it be interesting to find one of the books in the Borden library with the pages cut out in order to conceal a hatchet head? Maybe a Bible, or something which could be carried around without a lot of questions being asked?

Shelley, if you ever find a noose has been left hanging from the hall tree at the B&B or hanging from the neck of the dress form, you'll know who left it there!

There is not a place where it states Andrew's coat was kept in that dining room closet. We discussed that here with you and agreed it was probable.

The closest we come is that it was kept in the dining room. I used to picture it on a chair back in there, ready for him to grab.

I understand about a personal Library- we have books like that that are samples of subscription books that were available back then to middle class families. It can be like the newspapers calling Second Street Andrew Borden's "mansion."

Who would leave a noose, Yooper? I don't understand?

I don't remember that about books or Library there in the closet of the sitting room. I recall mention somewhere of Andrew's "Library" but not where it was.

--Kat

In the trial word search there is this about a "library":
Page 1679
[The jury is asked]. . .
"Are your houses all warmed with steam? Do you have carpets on every one of your floors, stairs and all?*
Do you have pictures and pianos and a library and all conveniences and luxury?"

*The Borden's did not have carpet on the back stairs to Bridget's room in the attic.

I recall in Pearson he mentions the rumor that there was a Household book that seemed to open automatically to the page on poison.

If there was a collection of books it might have been in the sitting room.

I will get around to digging it out after Christmas- yes, SOMEWHERE there is mention of "library" and books in the sittingroom. We have discussed it before, ages ago. There were surely books in the sittingroom on that tripod table and books (4-5 of them) in a stack on the table pulled up in front of the mantel in the sittingroom- those are shown with the boater hat in the grisly photo of Andrew on the autopsy board in front of the sofa Of course, the topic of hall trees has become lost in the book and library shuffle.

Okay Dokay.
Well, I am an expert on The Preliminary Hearing, having read it 5 times and my name is on the book. But I don't totally trust my "Trial" knowledge, only having read all the individual testimonies, but not in order- but since I did the search there already for you, we know that is the reference in the closing arguments.

I've just searched the Witness Statements and the Inquest and the Preliminary Hearing and the word "Library" is not there.

I'm sure you have better things to do after Christmas, so I've just done it, no problem.

I had some time, and the luxury of Harry's transcriptions of documents to make a search easier. I've checked for "Library":

Phillips
Lunday
Pearson (Trial, and *Borden* chapters from 5 Murders, Studies, SmuttyNose)
Pro-Jo
NYTimes
Evening Standard
Fall River Globe
and
Boston Globe
--none had the reference to the *library* except when they coped what is included below:

Here is what I found in the Boston Globe:

"Then a long time was consumed in a minute inspection of the parlor, library, sitting-room, dining room and kitchen, which availed nothing."
--The Boston Globe, Sunday, August 7, 1892 – 1, 6
"SPOT OF BLOOD"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~

“'Lizzie read everything, Emerson and Carlyle, and all standard novels down to the popular stories of the day.
“Her father always had a very good library.'"
-- IBID, "LIZZIE BORDEN. Her School and Later Life – A Noble
Woman, Though Retiring."
~~~~~~~~~~

"The letter, alleged in Lizzie’s story to have been received by Mrs. Borden on Thursday morning from a sick friend asking her attendance, was searched for immediately after the discovery of the murder.

In the waste basket in the library the officers found a number of letters torn in pieces.

By putting them together the letters were all read without difficulty, but there was not a trace found of the note Lizzie claimed was received by her mother."
HENRY G. TRICKEY
--The Boston Globe, Tuesday, August 9, 1892 – 1, 5
"NO FOOTPRINT"