Lizzie Borden Society Forum

One of our local TV stations here in the D. C. area has apparently inaugurated a cash bar in the newsroom:

Yesterday, one of the newswomen introduced a clip of a distraught Beth Twitty (Natalee Holloway's mother) by announcing: "In a pleaful tear today..."

This morning, another member of the same news crew provided a teaser for the afternoon news thusly: "Learn how to avoid pitfalls that could save you money."

That reminds me...I often hear people refer to "fellow classmates." Isn't that redundant? There's also that bug spray that "kills bugs dead." How else would it kill them? And finally, there's "I miss not being there." Shouldn't that be, "I miss being there"?

Very good.
Another is
The BTK Killer.

The one I hate the most is "terrible tragedy"---you hear it every day on TV. Duh!

lol..This reminds me of a friend of mine who says "I am going to take some meat out to unthaw for dinner"

Mine is "Breaking news". Which I assume means new news.

As in "BTK Killer," there's the "HIV Virus." I also like "extremely unique." If it's unique (one of a kind), can it be any more so?

Our dad's favorite was "irregardless."

George Carlin is a good one to point out things like that.
I always hear "a near miss." Shouldn't it be "a near hit"?

The news crew has apparently sobered up this morning. The London bombings probably did it.

I was scanning the "Estate Sales" column in the Post classifieds. Somebody's estate includes a "shabby shiek" bedroom suite. Not only did the paper use the wrong word, but "sheik" isn't even spelled right. I guess a "shabby sheik" would be no Valentino.

That bedroom funiture would probably go well with the "Chester drawers" I saw advertised a few weeks ago. I've also seen "Japanese nutskis" for sale several times.

Oh yeah, and there's always "A robbery gone wrong." Isn't a robbery wrong in the first place?

This brings to mind one of my favorite memories of my middle son when he was very young. When he would help set the table he would always ask me where the maceplats were.

If I had a son who would help set the table, he could call the placemats anything he wanted!

I've decided the Channel 4 news crew has been asked to pack more news into fewer minutes lately. They keep tripping over their own tongues. Speaking of national security this morning, one of them intoned solemnly: "The program was haltly shorted."

Today's Post has a story about a women's motorcycle club that was formed in 1940 and has some members in their late eighties. According to the article, their uniform includes "a sleeveless, baby-blue vest." Have any of you ever seen a vest WITH sleeves? This jolly group has been holding its 65th-anniversary convention in nearby Hagerstown, MD. A feature of the meeting was a 50-mile group ride through the back roads of Maryland and Pennsylvania. As they roared into one town, they were greeted by the bells of the Lutheran Church "peeling." (Must be that cheap bronze plating...)

And finally, one with a "Borden" connection: The label on my jar of Elmer's Rubber Cement instructs me to "coat both surfaces, then press dried wet surfaces together." (Huh?)

These are all great! I found one on my daily soap scum and mildew stain preventer product:

Just spray Clean Shower on tiles, tubs, curtains, shower doors and all wet surfaces after every shower. No need to rinse!

Yet they carry this disclaimer:

For shower safety: Run shower or tub water before entering always stand on a non-slip surface.

Hmmm, sounds like rinsing to me.....

I am not sure if this fits in here or not, but the funny things you all are sharing remind me of my favorite part of English grammar..."dangling participles."

For instance:
Trying to meet my Friday deadline, my pc suddenly decided to stop working.

or

Riding down the street on my bicycle, a dog knocked me over.

These always make me laugh.


Tracy...

Mon Dieu...

When I was learning English!

I used to say "Which" instead of "what" all the time.

I also had a HUGE tendency to use "do" all the time.

'I do think I shall come' 'I do love you', etc.

The worst was the "graveyard" incident.

In college (In Boston) I would hear all these people I knew and chatted with talking about their job on "graveyards" and how wonderful it was and how they could study, read, etc. I could not imagine how this could be so! Why would anyone wish to work in a graveyard, especially at night?

I finally asked someone-- and they all fell about to laugh at me.

Of course there was also the way I pronounced "sheet"....

There are plenty of standard usages that could be attacked on the same grounds as some of the above:

behave yourself (Ever try behaving anyone else?)

Why "eyesight," but not "nosesmell," "tonguetaste," "earhearing" and "skintouch"?

head over heels (Isn't it usually?)

A couple more:

the La Brea tar pits (the The Tar tar pits)

Spanish place names beginning with "Al," from the Arabic meaning "the":

the Alhambra, the Alcazar, etc.

I used to work with a woman who ever so slightly screwed up almost every cliché she uttered. Now, twenty years later, the only one I can think of was "It's either feast or famish," but she was full of these not quite right sayings.

That's a cute one, Christopher!
My girlfriend had a garden and showed me her "violents."
She is full of those- We're always joshing her.

My teacher in high school told us we were going to read "A sale of two titties"---we just looked at each other and tried to be kind. She was old, very old, and one did NOT laugh at her, only with her. I don't think she ever realized what she said. After I read the book I thought it a rather appropriate malapropism somehow.

One of my nephews wanted to get "Aunt T" something for Christmas several years ago. He was about 3 years old at the time. He decided on a cute kitty-shaped refridgerator magnet that had it's arms spread out and said "I love you this much". Ok, I know...that's not funny...but what is funny is when he gave it to me he said "Here Aunt T...I got you a fridge maggot"...I am still laughing almost 15 years later. To this day I call the magnets on my refridgerator "fridge maggots". (I still have the kitty 'maggot')


Tracy...

Like Christopher, I had a coworker who couldn't seem to keep her adages straight. I don't recall all of them, but I remember hearing her say, "If he does that, he'll be jumping out of the frying pan right into the skillet."

I had a mystifying discussion with her one day after I had asked for time off work to go for a job interview. The job was in another department of the agency where we both worked, and she was familiar with its requirements. As I was leaving, she said to me, "You probably won't get that job, because it requires a background in psychosomatics." I responded, "Oh, I have as many imaginary illnesses as anybody else." She looked startled. (The job actually involved psychometrics.)

This should help us all!

http://www.phrases.org.uk/

Why do we drive on a parkway and park in a drive way?

Wow! Great site, Stefani! I bookmarked it. I used to have a series of books (think they're still in my library "somewhere") about the origin of American phrases.

I was talking with one of my sons on the phone last night, and somehow the discussion turned to Lizzie Borden. I was fairly amazed at how much he has learned about Lizzie on his own. When I mentioned Lizzie's use of the euphemism "have fleas" for menstruation, he was absolutely convulsed. We agreed that it's quite funny that Lizzie preferred admitting she "had fleas" to confessing that she had been menstruating.

I think we traced that to -was it Lincoln?

Personally I don't believe she meant she was having her
period- I think she really had fleas.

Here ia a link to a discussion about Lizzie's period, 2002:

http://lizzieandrewborden.com/Archive20 ... fprivy.htm

Here is Lincoln's spin:

"At the inquest, in a throw-away line with no follow-up, Knowlton had asked Lizzie if she knew how a bloodstain could have got on her underskirt. She replied, 'I have fleas.' The answer was quaintly dictated by a Victorian delicacy which the Tampax advertisements now make it hard for us to believe in; but it was, in fact, more convincing than that which her defense later offered, in refined circumlocutions, to the jury. And a female jury would have known it. Over their heavy napkins, women wore ruffled drawers to the knee and short white petticoats under the underskirt; I remember. A widish smear caused by a heavy period was quite possible; a small, clear-edged spot, so placed, would have been wildly improbable even if it had come from the inside, not the outside, of the garment.

However, men judged the case, and have judged it ever since."

This is what Lizzie said
Inquest
87(44)
Q. Did you give to the officer the same skirt you had on the day of the tragedy?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you know whether there was any blood on the skirt?
A. No, sir.
Q. Assume that there was, do you know how it came there?
A. No, sir.
Q. Have you any explanation of how it might come there?
A. No, sir.
Q. Did you know there was any blood on the skirt you gave them?
A. No, sir.
Q. Assume that there was, can you give any explanation of how it came there, on the dress skirt?
A. No, sir.
Q. Assume that there was, can you suggest any reason how it came there?
A. No, sir.
Q. Have you offered any?
A. No, sir.
Q. Have you ever offered any?
A. No, sir.
Q. Have you said it came from flea bites?
A. On the petticoats I said there was a flea bite. I said it might have been. You siad [sic] you meant the dress skirt.
Q. I did. Have you offered any explanation how that came there?
A. I told those men that were at the house that I had had fleas; that is all.
Q. Did you offer that as an explanation?
A. I said that was the only explanation that I knew of.
Q. Assuming that the blood came from the outside, can you give any explanation of how it came there?
A. No, sir.
Q. You cannot now?
A. No, sir.


--We've never heard this fleas=period explanation before Lincoln.
I also found out that the flea reference was added to that mum site because of the Lincolnism and also where I post about "Falling off the roof" I found out it was my sister who added that to the site as well.

As heard while in line at the grocery store today, from an elderly woman who was digging through a change purse for a couple of pennies:

"I'm all fingers today, all fingers..."

And while we're at it, who can explain chicken fried chicken?

-Michelle

That just reminded me of one, I think it was George Carlin who brought it up in his comedy act; Jumbo Shrimp.

Back to Lizzie's fleas:

I can see Lizzie telling Knowlton that she had a (one) flea bite, but IMHO saying "I had fleas" means she was infested with them. Either that or it was a well-understood euphemism for something -- and menstruation makes some sense in that context. Do you suppose that under those fashionably high dress collars our Lizzie was wearing a flea collar?

She said she "had had fleas"
and
"On the petticoats I said there was a flea bite"

No one else has ever used that euphemism. You can take a poll of everyone you know and people will look blankly at you.
I've asked lots of people including 2 ladies as well, in their late 80's, one from Newton, Mass., one from Baltimore. They never heard of it.

Edisto @ Mon Jul 11, 2005 2:07 pm wrote:Back to Lizzie's fleas:

I can see Lizzie telling Knowlton that she had a (one) flea bite, but IMHO saying "I had fleas" means she was infested with them. Either that or it was a well-understood euphemism for something -- and menstruation makes some sense in that context. Do you suppose that under those fashionably high dress collars our Lizzie was wearing a flea collar?

I agree with Edisto. I think that it was a euphemism for something. The reason I believe so is, where would Lizzie have gotten fleas in the first place? I am assuming if you looked at it this way, you would believe she had fleas in the house. Where would fleas come from? They are usually carried by some animal into the house. Not just decide to take up residence on their own accord. They didn't even have a horse at this time, and the pigeons were gone. I'm on the computer at the library which really hinders my research time, and access to some resources, but I would tend to agree with the theory that it was a euphemism for something, such as menstruation. I can see where they would use a more delicate term back then rather than just saying flat out "I was menstruating. "

Well, I happen to know people get infested with fleas and have no pet.
They may recently have had contractors in the house who could have brought them in on their clothes.
While I'm not an expert on menstruation I am an expert (and professional) when it comes to fleas.

The eggs can survive unhatched for years. Fleas or eggs themselves can come in on rugs, used items gotten from a friend, visitors. They can be outside because of stray animals and get on your clothing and come inside on you, yourself. Depends on where you hang out.
The eggs might need a damp enviornment to hatch- the exact recipe for hatching is something I'm not sure of.

(If anyone vacuums who has fleas they should take the vacuum bag outside after every sweeping.)

I was a co-owner of a very successful home-cattery, raising Himilayans and Persians for many years.

I think the key is for anyone to find this euphemism somewhere other than Victoria Lincoln.

I agree with Kat, those fleas are hard to get rid of
and until I sprung for the expensive stuff through
the Vet, I was in a losing battle. I also have never
heard of using the term "Fleas" for menstruation.
Lizzie could have gotten a flea bite anywhere, visiting a friend, in the yard, at church even, those
little suckers jump around to everyone.

This isn't incorrect usage exactly, except for the odd punctuation -- it's just that the writing is unclear and can be taken two different ways.

A woman in Maryland who raises exotic sheep recently found that some idiot (a cruel idiot at that) had shot two of her expensive ewes. One was killed outright, and the other had to be put down. The sympathetic piece in the Washington Post included the following:

"These are animals she watched being born, at early hours of the morning, she said; creatures she has brought up with her husband, protecting them from sickness."

On reading that, I said to myself, "Well, she promised to care for him in sickness and in health, but I wonder if the smell of wet wool doesn't get to the poor guy..."

The mental image of this woman handfeeding her husband and 2 sheep with bottles is priceless! Thanks for the Friday laugh, Edisto, good way to start the weekend.

How about this delightfully horrendous gem from an ad quoted many years ago in The New Yorker:

Which one of the following magazines do you have the most confidence in the advertising that appears in it?

I am going to the range with my "bow and arrow." What one arrow?
We never say we are going to the range with our "gun and bullet."

"I could care less". Then why don't you?
"I couldn't care less" sound's better.

"I'll see if I can't do it."
"I'll see if I can do it" Much better.

"We had a near miss." No, you did miss. What you had was a "near hit."

Those are a few of mine.

-1bigsteve (o:

am going to the range with my "bow and arrow." What one arrow?
We never say we are going to the range with our "gun and bullet."

It depends. "I said the sparrow, with my bow and arrow." It only took one.

"I could care less". Then why don't you?

Ironic. What about "yeah, right," which means "yeah, wrong"; "big deal," which usually means "small potatoes" and "I beg your pardon," which often means "you have a royal hell of a nerve."

"We had a near miss." No, you did miss. What you had was a "near hit."

It could be said that it was a miss, but near TO a hit.

I always thought it was really "a near mis", referring to a near mishap.


Tracy....

another illogical idiom: I'm going to ask you to . . .

Somehow, we never follow up on it.

Angel @ Thu Jul 07, 2005 5:53 am wrote:George Carlin is a good one to point out things like that.
I always hear "a near miss." Shouldn't it be "a near hit"?

My sentiments exactly, Ellen. I hate hearing "near miss." It's the Airlines way of downplaying the seriousness of the two planes nearly hitting each other. "Oh, look mommy, that plane nearly missed us." Reminds me of that Mayor in "Jaws" when he says, "There may have been some injuries" when in fact two people had been ripped to pieces.

George Carlin is so funny. I can't pick up his book without laughing my head off.

-1bigsteve (o:

I would agree if it were 'near miss'...but actually it is 'near mis, as in near mishap. LOL...sorry to be the party pooper.





Tracy...

Did you all ever hear George Carlin re. things said on an airplane? The attendant, for example, saying to remember to take your "personal" belongings? Versus "public" belongings, perhaps? To get "on" the plane - George says "I don't know about anyone else, but I'm getting "in" the plane. And how they have changed the word "cockpit" to "flight deck", which he thinks should not have been changed at all because of all the attendants running in and out of there all the time. Etc etc etc.
Love him.

I heard Carlin once say, "Home is where you put your stuff while you are out getting more stuff." That one tickled me for some reason. They had to change it from "cockpit" to "flight deck" when women became pilots. Get it? I think Gallager said that.

The Airlines have a gazillion "plays with words" that minimize the dangers of flight:

1. The flight has been "delayed" when they already know it crashed,

2. A "near miss" sounds less threatening than "we nearly hit each other and had our guts splattered all over the sky",

3. Most air crashes are blamed on "pilot error" even though they prove that the engine fell off because of a defect caused by the factory,

4. "We are going to make sure this never happens again" when in fact it does happen again, and again,

5. The flight has "dropped from our radar" when they already know it has plowed into a hill side,

6. "We are experiencing some "technical difficulties" so we will be returning to the airport" after the left wing fell off and they're losing fuel and alltitude fast.

Here's one that gets me. When the Challenger blew up I heard a voice at NASA say, "It appears we have had a malfunction." Gee, you mean it was more serious than a burned-out light bulb? My sister's friend is an airline pilot and he says you wont believe some of the phrases that are used in the industry to downplay the risks of flight.

Speaking of "malfunctions" how about Janet Jackson's wardrobe malfunction? No, I just think he grabbed too much accidently on purpose.

How about "open the door." What, with a saw? Open the entry sounds strange but more accurate.

Here's one from Gallager, "Why are buildings called "buildings" when they are already built? Shouldn't they be called "builts?"

Carlin's book "Brain Droppings" is a gas. He is so funny I nearly wet my pants when he comes on.

-1bigsteve (o:

I think Carlin is a national treasure.

theebmonique @ Thu Jan 11, 2007 1:38 am wrote:I would agree if it were 'near miss'...but actually it is 'near mis, as in near mishap. LOL...sorry to be the party pooper.

Tracy...

It depends on whether you can think for yourself.
A 'near miss' is differenct from a 'far miss'. It emphasizes the closeness of whatever missed you.
"Missing by a mile' isn't usually an exact mile. Idiomatic language.

Don't overlook 'euphemisms' either.

1. The flight has been "delayed" when they already know it crashed,

I thought they called that an "unscheduled landing"???

Angel @ Thu Jan 11, 2007 9:08 am wrote:I think Carlin is a national treasure.

I love Carlin too !





Tracy...

RayS @ Thu Jan 11, 2007 8:13 am wrote:

theebmonique @ Thu Jan 11, 2007 1:38 am wrote:I would agree if it were 'near miss'...but actually it is 'near mis, as in near mishap. LOL...sorry to be the party pooper.

Tracy...

It depends on whether you can think for yourself.
A 'near miss' is differenct from a 'far miss'. It emphasizes the closeness of whatever missed you.
"Missing by a mile' isn't usually an exact mile. Idiomatic language.

Don't overlook 'euphemisms' either.

1. The flight has been "delayed" when they already know it crashed,

I thought they called that an "unscheduled landing"???

"Unscheduled Landing?" Good one Ray, I love it!!

-1bigsteve (o:

theebmonique @ Tue Sep 06, 2005 5:12 pm wrote:I always thought it was really "a near mis", referring to a near mishap.


Tracy....

Try typing in "near mis" in google and it wil ask you, "Did you mean: "near miss?" with "ss."

But, when you type in "misshap" it will ask you if you ment, "mishap?" with one "s."

The english language is a strange animal. Crazy.

-1bigsteve (o:

New and Improved, is my favorite.

bobarth @ Thu Jan 11, 2007 1:50 pm wrote:New and Improved, is my favorite.

Good one, Bobbie! If it is "new" why is it "improved?" And if it is "improved" then how can it be "new?" I guess big business thinks we are too stupid to figure out this stuff.

-1bigsteve (o: