Histogram curves
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Lorcan
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Histogram curves
I just started with astrophotography a couple of years ago and one way we process the photos is going to the histogram and sliding the left edge to just before the slope of the histogram starts. We usually make some type of S curve. I am not good at this yet and I am using the free gimp image editor. I'm sure there are far more advanced people who can do this. Here is my first attempt. I wanted to get a clearer image of the bed sheets and the dresser. I notice there is a man in both photos. Off to the far right on the photo of Abby and in the front landing in rolled up sleeves in the doorway of the dresser photo.
THIS IS NOT GENERATIVE AI adding new information to the photo - it's just adjusting the contrast levels with the histogram curve.
If anyone is good at processing photos, see what we can pull out of the images. I have a feeling this would have to be done in sections, where we have to make one section look worse to improve another section.
THIS IS NOT GENERATIVE AI adding new information to the photo - it's just adjusting the contrast levels with the histogram curve.
If anyone is good at processing photos, see what we can pull out of the images. I have a feeling this would have to be done in sections, where we have to make one section look worse to improve another section.
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Lorcan
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Re: Histogram curves
I tried to get those two photos and ended up noticing blood splatter on the wallpaper as well. Does anyone know what the photo is depicting - to me it seems like a pet or animal with a kid? Also, what's that thin thing leaning on the left side of the dresser by what looks like a hand mirror. Maybe some Victorian experts can figure out a lot more from these photos.
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Lorcan
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Re: Histogram curves
Are those the same oversized Andrew's shoes?
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camgarsky4
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Re: Histogram curves
The photo with the bed removed (prior post) is by far the clearest version of this photo. I have never heard the word "histogram' before. Sounds like it is a technique to provide greater clarity to photographs?
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Lorcan
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Re: Histogram curves
It allows you so see a map of the bright and dark areas of the photo and adjust the contrast with far more specific control than a simple overall full image contrast adjustment. Here is the histogram of the common version of the photo, so you can see the starting point. I hope we can get more traffic on this forum again, because I know for sure there are photographer hobbyists and professionals who can get so much more out of the photos, especially if whomever has the originals would do a modern full resolution scan as a starting point.
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Lorcan
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Re: Histogram curves
I tried adjusting it more and I can't make it look any better, but take a look at the toes of her feet in both photos. As horrifying as it is, we are searching for the truth and it looks like in the photo with the bed removed her toes are bent under, as if she were trying to push herself away and under the bed, or maybe it's just the result of the police or someone else pulling her legs into a more dignified position.
The shoes look to me like high ankle shoes rather than dress shoes. I wonder if they were hers not Andrew's. He was 5' 11" and she was barely over 5'. Those soles look very long for her, but very narrow for him.
The shoes look to me like high ankle shoes rather than dress shoes. I wonder if they were hers not Andrew's. He was 5' 11" and she was barely over 5'. Those soles look very long for her, but very narrow for him.
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camgarsky4
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Re: Histogram curves
Once the Lizzie Borden Netflix series airs August/September, I suspect the forum will be hopping with a cast of brand new amateur sleuths. Until then, it seems that someone new pops up every few weeks. Please check your PM's.
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Lorcan
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Re: Histogram curves
Does anyone know what the item circled in yellow is? I tried to get AI to help, it came up with a natural palm fan as its top choice, but I don't think so. I thought it might be some piece of photography equipment, but no match yet. I thought it might be some type of shaving strop or shave foam board but I just don't find any exact matches.
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camgarsky4
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Re: Histogram curves
Sorry, can't even fathom a guess on what that item might be.
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Inspector
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Re: Histogram curves
Thank you for your work on the photos, they are amazing, and very interesting to view. If you are new to the technology, I can only imagine how good your future works will be.
I noticed the photo of a woman on the wall which I’ve not been able to see before.
I noticed the photo of a woman on the wall which I’ve not been able to see before.
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Lorcan
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Re: Histogram curves
I noticed a similar irregular shape in the upper left of the photo in Parallel Lives. When I put all 3 into Gemini, it came up with the following guess.
In the Lizzie Borden crime scene photos, the photographer likely brought a portable version of a light diffuser. Since he was working in a cramped bedroom with limited light, he would have used the diffuser to bounce the light from his magnesium flash or a nearby window to ensure the shadows weren't too deep for the camera to record the details of the scene.
These devices were typically:
Constructed of Silk: A piece of white or pale blue silk was stretched over a lightweight wire frame.
Irregular Shapes: As seen in your photos, they often had a "leaf" or "fan" shape. This allowed the photographer to position it very close to the subject's face to soften light from a specific angle (like a window) without it appearing in the frame of the camera.
In the Lizzie Borden crime scene photos, the photographer likely brought a portable version of a light diffuser. Since he was working in a cramped bedroom with limited light, he would have used the diffuser to bounce the light from his magnesium flash or a nearby window to ensure the shadows weren't too deep for the camera to record the details of the scene.
These devices were typically:
Constructed of Silk: A piece of white or pale blue silk was stretched over a lightweight wire frame.
Irregular Shapes: As seen in your photos, they often had a "leaf" or "fan" shape. This allowed the photographer to position it very close to the subject's face to soften light from a specific angle (like a window) without it appearing in the frame of the camera.
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Inspector
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Re: Histogram curves
The picture of the sewing machine seems to show it encased in its protective box. Could this give a clue that it wasn’t used that morning?
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camgarsky4
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Re: Histogram curves
That would certainly suggest no one used it or, if they did, they put everything back in order when they got done.
I think Lizzie said she didn't need machine for the button or whatever she sewed that day. I believe she told Knowlton she didn't think Abby used it.
I think Lizzie said she didn't need machine for the button or whatever she sewed that day. I believe she told Knowlton she didn't think Abby used it.
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Lorcan
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Re: Histogram curves
The photographer in the photo where you can see the folding chair and sewing machine covered up the window, but the chair is sitting directly in front of the window. I just had a thought. From that chair, Lizzie would have a view out the window of Bridget entering the barn to refill her water pail. She could be innocently sewing by hand the loop on the sleeve, taking advantage of the sewing equipment and good light by the window. What if Lizzie had the hatchet under an apron or a of bit of laundry while sewing and she waited until Bridget entered the barn, or turned the corner to work on the south side of the house, then in one smooth motion stood up and swung the hatchet? She was already in range of where the first blow was struck from that chair.
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Inspector
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Re: Histogram curves
Wasn’t that chair actually up close to Abby’s head against the wall when she was killed. then moved before the picture was taken?
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Lorcan
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Re: Histogram curves
Great catch, Inspector. My speculation appears to be false, but later, it sounds like a second chair was where the camp chair is in the photo of Abby. I wish they actually took crime scene photos without altering the scene. Here is the relevant testimony.
Melvin Adams At that first view was there a chair by the bureau, and between the bureau and the window?
William Dolan No Sir. I am glad you spoke of that chair that is lacking from the photograph. There was a kind of a camp chair, you might call it, an upholstered chair between her head and the east wall; and the feet of that were covered with blood.
Melvin Adams What has become of that chair?
William Dolan It was in the house on Second street the last time I was there.
Melvin Adams It was not taken away?
William Dolan No Sir.
Melvin Adams Whether there was a chair at the end of the bureau between the bureau and the window, when you saw that room the first time?
William Dolan I think there was a cane seated chair.
Melvin Adams Was there any chair near it?
William Dolan I could not tell you.
Melvin Adams Was this a chair with ordinary legs, or legs with a rocker?
William Dolan That I would not say.
Melvin Adams You do not recollect whether it was a sewing chair, or not?
William Dolan No Sir.
Look at the extreme left of the photo with Abby. There appears to be a chair leg and someone hung a coat over the back of that chair. I wonder if that is the cane seated chair and if it was originally right next to the window.
Melvin Adams At that first view was there a chair by the bureau, and between the bureau and the window?
William Dolan No Sir. I am glad you spoke of that chair that is lacking from the photograph. There was a kind of a camp chair, you might call it, an upholstered chair between her head and the east wall; and the feet of that were covered with blood.
Melvin Adams What has become of that chair?
William Dolan It was in the house on Second street the last time I was there.
Melvin Adams It was not taken away?
William Dolan No Sir.
Melvin Adams Whether there was a chair at the end of the bureau between the bureau and the window, when you saw that room the first time?
William Dolan I think there was a cane seated chair.
Melvin Adams Was there any chair near it?
William Dolan I could not tell you.
Melvin Adams Was this a chair with ordinary legs, or legs with a rocker?
William Dolan That I would not say.
Melvin Adams You do not recollect whether it was a sewing chair, or not?
William Dolan No Sir.
Look at the extreme left of the photo with Abby. There appears to be a chair leg and someone hung a coat over the back of that chair. I wonder if that is the cane seated chair and if it was originally right next to the window.
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Inspector
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Re: Histogram curves
It does appear to be the cane seated chair in the photograph, and of the type for sewing. Perhaps we don’t have any photos of the bedside chair.
Thanks for the testimony regarding the subject.
I didn’t recollect the legs being bloodstained on the bedside chair.
Since Abby was sat up by the doctors for a quick examination, then laid back down, it’s hard to deduce much by the position of her shoes in my opinion.
From testimony we know her arms were not as they appear in the photos.
Thanks for the testimony regarding the subject.
I didn’t recollect the legs being bloodstained on the bedside chair.
Since Abby was sat up by the doctors for a quick examination, then laid back down, it’s hard to deduce much by the position of her shoes in my opinion.
From testimony we know her arms were not as they appear in the photos.
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Inspector
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Re: Histogram curves
This enhancing photo technology is very interesting, and I think it could reveal some new clues. I also noticed the black material draped by the chair. (possibly a man’s coat) There are lots of photos pertinent to the case that may give new insights through enhancement.
Changing the light, making some areas blurry to see others clearer, then putting it all together.
That’s fascinating to me.
Changing the light, making some areas blurry to see others clearer, then putting it all together.
That’s fascinating to me.
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Lorcan
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Re: Histogram curves
I think the one in the photo is the folding, upholstered camp chair. A cane chair, I think is just plain with holes from the weave. Here's what I mean.
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Lorcan
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Re: Histogram curves
Regarding enhancing the photos, I tried a bunch of them working with Camgarsky, but had very little luck as compared to the ones in this thread. What we really need is for Dr. Koorey or someone who is friends with the Fall River Historical Society to convince them to scan the photos with modern technology and have someone with professional photo editing tools to enhance them properly without altering the content (versus the generative AI "enhancement" which invents new data rather than just adjusting the exiting data). There is waaaay more information in some of these old photos if we can get the original negatives scanned or even a clean print scanned at high resolution.
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Inspector
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Re: Histogram curves
AI is definitely not the way to go, I agree. To your point, adding data only corrupts.
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Inspector
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Re: Histogram curves
Having a bedside chair above Abby’s head doesn’t make sense as it would block the use of the bureau drawers. I wonder if it was partly to conceal the carpet seam,
I’ve always been curious at the lack of blood on Abby’s back.
Possibly just doesn’t show up in the photos.
I’ve always been curious at the lack of blood on Abby’s back.
Possibly just doesn’t show up in the photos.