Change of heart?
Moderator: Adminlizzieborden
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Lorcan
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Change of heart?
Bridget said when she got to the corner of Second and Borden Street, she had to ask which house Alice lived in. Interestingly, even after almost 3 years working there, Bridget didn't know which house was Alice's house, nor which house was Abby's half-sister's house. Also, Abby used a bell to summon Bridget to clean up the table - I have a feeling I have been vastly underestimating the class difference in that house - it's hard for me not to think Bridget would eventually be treated a bit more like a member of the family than she was, but she obviously was actually treated like a servant, even after years of employment.
Lizzie was extremely generous with her servants - paying for their education, leaving them property and relatively large sums of money in her will. I know there are a few theories of what the sisters intended by calling Bridget "Maggie" but I don't really buy any of the friendlier explanations.
Do we think that was Lizzie being exceptionally generous rewarding loyalty or did the class distinctions really start to break down between 1892 and the 1910 - 1925 era?
Was loyal help so valuable and hard to find for Lizzie that she thought of them as more than employees?
Lizzie was extremely generous with her servants - paying for their education, leaving them property and relatively large sums of money in her will. I know there are a few theories of what the sisters intended by calling Bridget "Maggie" but I don't really buy any of the friendlier explanations.
Do we think that was Lizzie being exceptionally generous rewarding loyalty or did the class distinctions really start to break down between 1892 and the 1910 - 1925 era?
Was loyal help so valuable and hard to find for Lizzie that she thought of them as more than employees?
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Inspector
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Re: Change of heart?
I’ve always assumed Maggie was somewhat accepted and not unfriendly, probably because it was a long time ago and I figured possibly just how it was in many households,
Bridget testified it didn’t offend her, so I took that as an opportunity for her to speak up against it after almost three years.
Just my speculation though, and you could be right that Bridget was looked down upon class wise by the sisters in some ways.
Your post does make me think that Bridget didn’t dare pry into the family affairs or even ask questions.
Not knowing where Alice or the Whiteheads lived could show that the sisters never sat around chit chatting with Bridget or sharing details as would be expected with friends in normal conversation.
Bridget testified it didn’t offend her, so I took that as an opportunity for her to speak up against it after almost three years.
Just my speculation though, and you could be right that Bridget was looked down upon class wise by the sisters in some ways.
Your post does make me think that Bridget didn’t dare pry into the family affairs or even ask questions.
Not knowing where Alice or the Whiteheads lived could show that the sisters never sat around chit chatting with Bridget or sharing details as would be expected with friends in normal conversation.
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Inspector
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Re: Change of heart?
Several relatives in Anaconda and Butte remember Bridget, including Tim “Sox” Sullivan of Anaconda and his sister, Agnes Sullivan Holm of Butte.
As a small girl, Mrs. Holm went to visit her Great Aunt Bridget in Anaconda and found her none too friendly.
In the early 1940s when Bridget came to live with Tim and Agnes and their parents at 112 E. Woolman in Butte, Mrs. Holm was 15 and didn’t pay much attention to her elderly aunt.
She clearly remembers Bridget speaking of Lizzie Borden but it was not until years later she discovered the significance of that. She never, however, heard Bridget speak of any murders.
“Aunt Bridget was very quiet, she was old and bent,” Mrs. Holm said. But she was also “strong-willed” and “liked her wine,” sometimes a bit too much.
Bridget spend her last few years in the Butte county hospital where she died in 1948.
“She was always saying her prayers,” Holm said.
Excerpted from: John McNay, “Bordens’ Maid lived in Anaconda, Butte,” New Bedford Evening Standard, 1984.
As a small girl, Mrs. Holm went to visit her Great Aunt Bridget in Anaconda and found her none too friendly.
In the early 1940s when Bridget came to live with Tim and Agnes and their parents at 112 E. Woolman in Butte, Mrs. Holm was 15 and didn’t pay much attention to her elderly aunt.
She clearly remembers Bridget speaking of Lizzie Borden but it was not until years later she discovered the significance of that. She never, however, heard Bridget speak of any murders.
“Aunt Bridget was very quiet, she was old and bent,” Mrs. Holm said. But she was also “strong-willed” and “liked her wine,” sometimes a bit too much.
Bridget spend her last few years in the Butte county hospital where she died in 1948.
“She was always saying her prayers,” Holm said.
Excerpted from: John McNay, “Bordens’ Maid lived in Anaconda, Butte,” New Bedford Evening Standard, 1984.
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Inspector
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Re: Change of heart?
Does anyone know more about this “Christmas things” testimony?
5. Then comes the really curious part: Christmas
The prosecutor/defense questioning turned to conversations between Lizzie and Abby around Christmas.
Robinson asked:
“You heard them talking over things about Christmas time, didn't you?”
Bridget initially said she didn't know.
Then:
“I don't mean that; but you heard them talking over about Christmas things?”
Bridget:
“No sir, I don't remember that.”
Robinson:
“Have you forgotten that?”
Bridget:
“No sir, I did not.”
C
Crime Archives
This becomes important because Robinson then appears to confront her with her lost inquest testimony.
5. Then comes the really curious part: Christmas
The prosecutor/defense questioning turned to conversations between Lizzie and Abby around Christmas.
Robinson asked:
“You heard them talking over things about Christmas time, didn't you?”
Bridget initially said she didn't know.
Then:
“I don't mean that; but you heard them talking over about Christmas things?”
Bridget:
“No sir, I don't remember that.”
Robinson:
“Have you forgotten that?”
Bridget:
“No sir, I did not.”
C
Crime Archives
This becomes important because Robinson then appears to confront her with her lost inquest testimony.
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Lorcan
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Re: Change of heart?
Thanks, Inspector. I resurfaced a thread for us to discuss that testimony.
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camgarsky4
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Re: Change of heart?
Maggie was a 'nickname' for irish domestic servants, ironically, so was Bridget. Seems like they could have just called her that and killed two birds with one stone.
I don't think it was an open 'diss', but it certainly didn't demonstrate any semblance of a relationship beyond master and servant. Think about it, Bridget LIVED in the same house with Lizzie for almost three years (24/7), but the first time Bridget recalls Lizzie providing a shopping tip is just minutes before Andrew is murdered. I'm not sure what topics might be part of a conversation between Lizzie and Bridget, but for light chat, I would think shopping would be right up there with 'how's the weather'.
I lean towards Nellie McHenry's report to Hilliard to form my opinions of the family dynamics and how Bridget viewed them.
I don't think it was an open 'diss', but it certainly didn't demonstrate any semblance of a relationship beyond master and servant. Think about it, Bridget LIVED in the same house with Lizzie for almost three years (24/7), but the first time Bridget recalls Lizzie providing a shopping tip is just minutes before Andrew is murdered. I'm not sure what topics might be part of a conversation between Lizzie and Bridget, but for light chat, I would think shopping would be right up there with 'how's the weather'.
I lean towards Nellie McHenry's report to Hilliard to form my opinions of the family dynamics and how Bridget viewed them.
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Lorcan
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Re: Change of heart?
Is this the one?
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camgarsky4
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Re: Change of heart?
Yes sir. Thanks!
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Lorcan
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Re: Change of heart?
Wait a minute - check out that statement at beginning of the last paragraph in the first image. If Bridget implied it was possible Lizzie may have burned up all the cloth used to shield her from the blood is she potentially implying that it is plausible that the ashes would have been emptied into the ash pile in the basement? I don't know how well you could tell cloth ash from wood and coal ash mixed all together or how much ash a dress-sizes piece of cloth would leave - it was natural fibers back then, probably cotton, linen, silk - no plastics like we have today. I think the police sifted the oven for buttons, but how about the ash pile in the basement? Probably useless because Lizzie could say they routinely burned dresses. But would they remove the buttons first? Again, no plastic, so maybe the buttons were more valuable back then?