Lizzie’s contradictory actions and statements

[Inspector]

I thought it would be interesting to hear examples of Lizzie’s perceived contradictory actions and statements.
However with one CAVEAT.
Let’s try to limit each post to a max of two or three occurrences so others can contribute. Feel free to discuss any particular thoughts on your entries, as that may spark a new avenue in the case either for or against Lizzie.
We may not see eye to eye on these, but it’s not the reason for the entries, rather to hear how we view the happenings, and see if we’ve missed something helpful.

1) Lizzie stated she last saw Abby in the guest room, and Lizzie said she last saw Abby in the dining room.

2) Lizzie said when she first came downstairs the morning of August 4th, Bridget already had some window washing equipment and was heading outside, but Bridget testified this happened sometime later after Lizzie had coffee, and after Bridget came back inside from being sick. and doing more dishwashing.

[Lorcan]

When Lizzie was questioned about not knowing when Uncle John arrived, she said she was out.

When she was questioned about being at D.R. Smith's drug store around the time Uncle John did actually arrive, she said she was home all day not feeling well until when she walked to Alice Russell's house the night before the murders.

[camgarsky4]

When Lizzie was questioned about not knowing when Uncle John arrived, she said she was out.

When she was questioned about being at D.R. Smith's drug store around the time Uncle John did actually arrive, she said she was home all day not feeling well until when she walked to Alice Russell's house the night before the murders.

A bit later in her testimony, Lizzie clarified her awareness that Morse had come to the house in the afternoon.
Lizzie Inquest pg. 55 (12)
Q. When was it that you heard the voice of Mr. Morse?
A. I heard him down there about supper time---no, it was earlier than that. I heard him down there somewhere about three o'clock, I think. I was in my room Wednesday, not feeling well, all day.
Q. Did you eat supper at home Wednesday night?
A. I was at home; I did not eat any supper, because I did not feel able to eat supper; I had been sick.
Q. You did not come down to supper?
A. No sir.
Q. Did you hear him eating supper?
A. No sir. I did not know whether he was there or not.
Q. You heard him in the afternoon?
A. Yes sir.

[Lorcan]

Yes, that is in conflict with this testimony:

Q. When did he come to the house the last time before your father and mother were killed?
A. He stayed there all night Wednesday night.

Q. My question is when he came there.
A. I don't know. I was not at home when he came. I was out.

Then this exchange, even though DR Smith's is two tenths of a mile from Lizzie's house in the main shopping district Lizzie shopped in.

Q. Your attention has already been called to the circumstance of going into the drug store of Smith's, on the corner of Columbia and Main streets, by some officer, has it not, on the day before the tragedy?
A. I don't know whether some officer has asked me, somebody has spoken of it to me; I don't know who it was.

Q. Did that take place?
A. I [sic] did not.

Q. Do you know where the drug store is?
A. I don't.

That's why I put more weight on the conflict. When confronted with not knowing when John arrived, she says she was out. When confronted about DR Smiths she says she was home all day. Then to top it off, she says she doesn't know where it is, which I put as 99.999% a lie. Then add in the two uncalled witness groups from the two drugstores in New Bedford and it just compounds the suspicion.

[camgarsky4]

This will need to go into the 'not aligned' column.
The pharmacy encounter occurred around 10:30. Bridget testified that Lizzie sat with the family for the noon meal. Her testimony establishes that Lizzie had returned from the pharmacy by noon (assuming Bence, et al were correct in their identification).
Lizzie would have nothing to gain by lying about whether she heard Morse's arrival in the early afternoon. Lizzie may have been a murderer, but she was still someone under extreme duress, and I think it is very plausible, if not likely, that Lizzie misunderstood and thought Knowlton was asking if she knew what time Morse got back from Swansea, when she was at Alice's and not home. She clarified herself moments later. There are a goodly number of contradictions by Lizzie, but this one feels like a force fit.

Bridget Preliminary Hearing cross examination testimony
Q. Wednesday morning was the morning they came downstairs, and had all been sick?
A. Yes Sir.
Q. You had the pork steak and something for breakfast?
A. Yes Sir.
Q. And Lizzie complained of being sick?
A. Yes Sir.
Q. Lizzie stayed in her room all that forenoon, did not she?
A. I suppose so; I did not see her until she came to dinner.
Q. You knew she was upstairs. They were all sick and ailing that day?
A. Yes Sir.
Q. She did not go out at all that day, did she, so far as you know?
A. Miss Lizzie? I did not see her.
Q. So far as you know she did not go out?
A. I could not say whether she went out or not.

[Inspector]

These are great, and I forgot to invite discussion on how everyone feels their occurrences affect the case, so it’s good yall did.

I hope we can continue with a couple at a time, although I knew we would not all necessarily agree, it could bring out some interesting insights.

[Lorcan]

Camgarsky - not trying to be argumentative, just genuinely not understanding. This statement (I was out) to me seems very definitive and not something to be easily confused about if it is true that she truly was so sick as to not take meals and did not leave the house until the evening when she went to see Alice.

"A. I don't know. I was not at home when he came. I was out."

How does she clarify saying she was out? I just don't see it in the testimony.

From this it sounds like Lizzie might have skipped breakfast, lunch (dinner), and dinner (supper).

From Lizzie:
Q. You did not come down to supper?
A. No sir.

From Bridget:
Q. Lizzie stayed in her room all that forenoon, did not she?
A. I suppose so; I did not see her until she came to dinner.

Why I am getting so suspicious of Lizzie in this particular case is, to me, "I was out" is very definitive considering the circumstances of being that ill.

Why, oh why, didn't the lawyer ask her where she went and why go out when feeling so ill.

[Lorcan]

Oh, I see it now - the Swansea return not his arrival initially at the house.

[camgarsky4]

Yes. She could truthfully or not truthfully claim that she misunderstood and answered that she was out when he got back from Swansea. And since she clarified she knew he was there in the afternoon, she really can't be accused of lying, even in the off chance that she was. If I can be her defense attorney and argue something successfully, I tend to toss aside in my pursuit of proving her guilt!! (wrote that last bit just for Teenabee )

Her biggest contradiction was the iterative reasons she was not in the house when Andrew was killed.
Out back; getting something to fix window; staring at pigeon coop; rummaging thru nails to find a sinker; heard a groan; screen door was open; was going upstairs not to check out the groan but to just go upstairs.....I'm sure I'm missed something.

[Lorcan]

From the Periodic Table of Tall Tales thread, here is as complete a list as I have:

Category 1: Distressing Noise Investigation

Version 1A: I heard a scraping sound and went in.
Version 1B: I heard a groan and went in.


Category 2: Bored with Chores

Hosea Knowlton: When you came down from the barn, what did you do then?
Lizzie Borden: Came into the kitchen.

Hosea Knowlton: What did you do then?
Lizzie Borden: I went into the dining room and laid down my hat.

Hosea Knowlton: What did you do then?
Lizzie Borden: Opened the sitting room door, and went into the sitting room, or pushed it open; it was not latched.

Hosea Knowlton: What did you do then?
Lizzie Borden: I found my father, and rushed to the foot of the stairs.

Hosea Knowlton: What were you going into the sitting room for?
Lizzie Borden: To go up stairs.

Hosea Knowlton: What for?
Lizzie Borden: To sit down.

Hosea Knowlton: What had become of the ironing?
Lizzie Borden: The fire had gone out.

[Inspector]

Cam, you forgot eating pears..Lol
Just kidding, I’d love to hear more on this thread.
I have a few but want to hold off.

[Lorcan]

Has anyone tried to eat 4 pears in 30 minutes? I could only eat 2 in a row on an empty stomach, but they were from Oregon. The pears in 1892 Fall River may have been different. Lizzie claimed she was eating a pear in the kitchen, then she also said she ate 3 in the loft of the barn.

[Inspector]

That’s a lot of pears, and those after Lizzie initially said she didn’t even have any coffee.
Of course Bridget saw her having coffee.