Lizzie "cuts back"

[Audrey]

Inquest, Alice Russell. P146

Q. Was that quite a frequent thing, for her to visit you?
A. She has done so more this Summer, because she has not had quite so much outside work, but we have
always visited, been friends.


Why had Lizzie cut down on her “outside work”? Was she expecting some changes in her life? Had she been outcast for some other reason before the murders? It seems she had more time on her hands to do as she wished. Visit, plan, plot…..

[Kat]

Aha! I thought so! Lizzie let on to her Aunt Lurana that she was busy that summer- or that was what Emma told Lurana! Thanks for finding Alice's remark!
I've been wondering about that.

Inquest
Hiram Harrington
135
Q. How long ago was the last time she[Lizzie] said anything about it?
A. I think last Winter sometime. I have not seen her at the house for, I might say all Summer, and I have inquired of my wife how it was that Lizzie had not been down. Emma has always come. And the reply I would get from her was that Lizzie was into everything, that is, the works in the church, and her time was occupied; that is what I would get from her.

[diana]

I think this came up once before -- about Alice saying Lizzie had cut back on her outside work -- and we speculated at that time it was because committees etc. tend to take a break during the summer months. But Hiram's statement seems to indicate differently, doesn't it? Unless maybe Lizzie didn't like to go there and Emma was being polite about her absence and making excuses for her?

Here's something from the trial that may bolster the idea that Lizzie normally had more time during the summer months -- Bridget is asked:
"Q. Can you tell who took charge of the parlor sweeping, dusting and cleaning of it?
A. Miss Lizzie in the summer"

[Liz Crouthers]

Hum

[Kat]

Well, if some of the girls Lizzie worked with in the Church charity activities were in Marion, I don't know why Lizzie needed to do a roll call in Fall River.
Weren't some of her girlfriends part of her Church?

We don't know if Emma gave that excuse to Aunt Lurana for Lizzie- I mean, Emma was gone. Maybe Lurana gave it herself after something she just heard, to quiet Hiram. Does it make Hiram sound like a hard man and one not quite in the realm of understanding a female?

What is "Hum", Liz?

[diana]

Well, if some of the girls Lizzie worked with in the Church charity activities were in Marion, I don't know why Lizzie needed to do a roll call in Fall River.
Weren't some of her girlfriends part of her Church?

"Q. Why did they go sooner than you could; what was there to keep you?
A. I had taken the secretaryship and treasurer of our C. E. society, had the charge, and the roll call was the first Sunday in August, and I felt I must be there and attend to that part of the business." (Lizzie, Inquest)

I'm pretty sure the roll call referred to here is the roll call of the membership of the church congregation at the Sunday church service. Lizzie may have had something to do with keeping a record of the roll -- or she may just have felt that, as she held two offices in the C.E. society, she should be in attendance for the roll call of members of the church.

And as far as Hiram goes, relations between the two of them were so bad, it's hard to separate that from anything he says about her.

[Kat]

Does that mean (I always wondered) that in church on Sunday, people would respond "Here!" to some roll call?
Do they do that so they know who's tithing?
I thought it was some organization thing after church.

[diana]

Yes, according to my church-going sources, apparently roll call is a way of keeping the congregation list current. It wasn't done every Sunday or anything -- maybe just a few times a year.

In one church, for example, if you missed 3 consecutive Communion Sundays (which was determined by whether a communion envelope with your name on it turned up in the collection coffer or not, rather than calling out names) you were stricken from the congregational record -- so people would make a special effort to make it to church on those particular Sundays.

It may not be as prevalent now as it was in Lizzie's day.

[Susan]

Thanks Diana for the interesting info! I recall that Lincoln had made some comment in her book about Lizzie staying back for the roll call and that basically it would have been for a skeleton crew at best. Lincoln has it that Lizzie was taking roll call for one of her organizations. Agh, wish my books were unpacked to try and find it.

[Haulover]

***In one church, for example, if you missed 3 consecutive Communion Sundays (which was determined by whether a communion envelope with your name on it turned up in the collection coffer or not, rather than calling out names) you were stricken from the congregational record -- so people would make a special effort to make it to church on those particular Sundays.***

that is interesting for sure. i had assumed that lizzie's business pertained to the society she belonged to.

but the above practice is rather startling to me. it would not work today in any church i'm familiar with.

[diana]

Here's Lincoln on the roll call, Susan.

"She explained that she had been getting ready for a roll call of Christian Endeavor which was to have been held on the Sunday after the crime.
(Fall River's well-to-do almost all leave town for the hot months, the men commuting from nearby watering places. It would have been a skeleton meeting to which Lizzie had allotted an awesome minimum of two weeks and three days' solitary preparation.)" (Lincoln, 177)

I think this may Lincoln embroidering a bit. Lizzie did not say she was "getting ready" for the roll call, but rather that she had to stay back for it. I doubt a C.E. meeting would have been held on a Sunday -- Sundays were reserved for church and not much else in those days. Most agendas list members present at a meeting as a matter of course -- they do not take special roll calls on "the first Sunday in August" for example.

So I'm still of the opinion that Lizzie meant the congregational roll callat the church service -- and that the C.E. and most of her other endeavours would be on a summer break.

And you're right, Eugene -- I don't think this happens too often nowadays. My source was a church secretary, and she said the missed Communion envelopes resulting in a penalty are now a thing of the past. I didn't make that clear in my post.

[Haulover]

i don't remember anyone from the church commenting on this specifically -- i'm assuming they all could have read her inquest in the paper. I would not be surprised if Rev. Buck deliberately did not read it. i know without being there whether the membership gossiped. i wonder if someone actually obsessed over her assertion about having responsibility for the roll call and did some internal polling.

[diana]

Now I'm deep into speculative waters here -- but it may be possible that Lizzie (as secretary of the C.E.) was responsible for keeping the record of the congregational roll. Or perhaps the C.E. kept a duplicate for their own records.

In other words, I don't think she was necessarily prevaricating in this particular instance.

[Kat]

Thanks for all the info which was never covered before! Appreciate it. I didn't know any of this. I guess one needs to know the right question to ask, huh?

I figured with all her friends in the church, kind of like Eugene, that if Lizzie had been fibbing we'd a known about it later. So I did believe her- I figured I was missing something tho. What you supplied as info seems reasonable.

[Allen]

There was pretty extensive newspaper coverage of the Christian Endeavor Convention held in New York in Madison Square Garden in The New Yorks Times which is dated July 9, 1892. It takes up all of page 8, and there are also items on pages 9 and 10. It's stated that over 30,000 people attended, from all over the world. I had wondered at first if some of the members might have been out of town attending this convention at the time Lizzie was supposedly to take the roll call. But even if they had attended that gives them plenty of time to return home. So I was wondering why is it said that many of the members were out of town? Where were they? This article also gave me a little more insight into why Lizzie may have joined the Christian Endeavor Society.The Christian Endeavor Society is refered to as the greatest movement in Christianity in this article.


The New York Times dated July 9, 1892 page 8:

(This is taken from a speech made by Mr. Wanamaker who was on the board of Trustees of the United Societies of Christian Endeavor. He was also Postmaster General of the United States)

"I rejoice to-night that the Christian Endeavor movement has brought something to this age. Not a local or a temporary thing, but a something that commands the heart and the good opinion of the whole world at large. Men are asking in the street, " What is this movement? How did it come?"

(In a speech made by Rev. Dr. Conwell again on page 8)

" The chief mission of the Christian Endeavor Society is to cure the disease, common in so many of the churches of this country, known as 'suspended animation' - churches in which gloomy, sad-looking people sit in gloomy silence and listen to the long set sermons by long winded deacons, and to the most doleful and rigid prayers and supplications from the most miserable sinners in the world.

If the Christian Endeavor Society can contrive to bring happiness into such churches as this: if the Christian Endeavor Society can erase from the countenance of the persons who believe that religion is a thing to be feared and not to be loved the wrinkles that are deepened by such a belief, then the Christian Endeavor Society will have performed a work that alone would recompense it's heroic organizers for thier unremitting labors."
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" There is another thing that has brought success to us. It is the co-operation of the woman. In the older churches women were not allowed the same privileges as men. Here they stand equal in the work, and they have accomplished great things.

The Christian Endeavor is like a kind and gentle sister who is told by a physician that her brother- thin, pale, emaciated- is dying, and there is only but one thing to save him, the transfusion of blood. Willingly she bares her beautiful arm, and her fresh young blood flows into his veins and gives him new life. So into the Church of Jesus Christ it has been put, and the Church is now vigorous with it's living blood."
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" We cultivate the individual pledge in the Christian Endeavor Society by making them sign a pledge. There are people so conscientious, so pious, that they think it is wrong to sign a pledge in the church."
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" A word about woman. The church has not recognized her as it should. it has been civil to man but not to woman. It has kept her in the background. This is not right. We owe so much to her gentleness, her softness, and her patience. In the Society of Christian Endeavor she has equal rights, and I believe that when any one is entitled equal rights it should be granted them, notwithstanding the sanction of custom. She has the right to make the most of herself, and that right was given to her by God."


On page 9 of The New York Times July 9,1892 under the heading:

Roll Call - Responses
------------------------
One Minute Speeches By Home and
Foreign Delegates.

" This demonstration was received by the convention with marks of strong approval, and after the Chairman had hammered upon his desk for several minutes, the delegates quieted down and prepared to hear the roll-call of the States, Territories, and Provincial Unions, conducted by the Rev. T. McEwen.

Among the delegates who appeared and spoke twenty words each as a representative of their respective unions were several foreigners, and those were greeted with every form of applause which the ingenuity of the delegates could suggest or their handkerchiefs or umbrellas could furnish."

From the way I understood it in reading this article, the roll call was calling out the names of the members, and they came forward and spoke a little bit about how things were going with the movement in their areas. It states that delegates from not only each state, but from Bombay, Alaska, Australia, England, Japan, and other countries came forward to talk about how the movement was progressing in their area. They were called by their area, and the delegate for that area came forth. It also states that:

" The delegates from several states were not present at the roll call."

and

"After the roll call was concluded, notices of several meetings were read..."

This is article gives me a very good picture of what the movement was all about and I am glad I stumbled on it.

[Susan]

Thanks for that, Melissa! Interesting info. I didn't know that blood transfusions went back that far in time.

[theebmonique]

Here's a bit on the history of blood tranfusions.

http://www.aabb.org/All_About_Blood/FAQ ... faqs.htm#8


Tracy...

[Allen]

Thanks for the link Tracy.

[Susan]

Thanks, Tracy. I'm always amazed at the ingenuity of the Victorians, the amount of discoveries that were made during that era. Very cool!