June 6, 1865 -- guess the significance before you click

Stefani · Post by **Stefani** » Tue Jun 07, 2005 12:18 am

June 6, 1865
Andrew J. Borden marries Abby D. Gray (he 43+, she 37+, Emma 14+, Lizzie almost 5).

140th wedding anniversary.

Audrey · Post by **Audrey** » Tue Jun 07, 2005 12:22 am

Does anyone know if Abby had a diamond ring?

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Tue Jun 07, 2005 12:48 am

I wouldn't have guessed that date. It was so soon after Lincoln's assisnation, wasn't it? How romantic!

I heard/read that Lizzie had claimed her mother Sarah had diamonds. But not Abby.

Liz Crouthers · Post by **Liz Crouthers** » Tue Jun 07, 2005 4:22 am

REmembered again so many things happen in June for Lizzie and every one dies in March

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Tue Jun 07, 2005 5:16 am

That sounds like a book!
"So many Things Happen In June For Lizzie and Everyone Dies In March." The end.

Liz Crouthers · Post by **Liz Crouthers** » Tue Jun 07, 2005 6:30 pm

Well Kat it's true,

June
Lizzie's trial, Andrew's second wedding, Lizzie's death, Emma's death.

March
Alice died March 20 , 1858
Sarah died March 26 1863
Bridget died March 26 1948

beckygoddess · Post by **beckygoddess** » Tue Jun 07, 2005 10:57 pm

June 6, 1893 was also a Tuesday and case related events on that date:

Second day of the Superior Court Trial in New Bedford. The Indictment is read; William Moody opened for the Prosecution. It's reported Lizzie fainted and was revived.

Civil Engineer Thomas Kieran was called and gave measurements of the house; testified man could have hid in front entry closet.

Jurors traveled to Fall River and visited the Kelly's house, Wade's store, Crowe's stone yard, Chagnon’s house, Kirby's yard, Alice Russell's house, Gorman's store, Clegg’s store and banks. Tour finished at 4:00 pm.

The Jurors weretaken to Mellen House, Franklin & North Main Street where they spent the night.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Tue Jun 07, 2005 11:17 pm

Thanks.
Please can you include your sources?

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 4:37 am

I'm always asking for sources- nothing personal.
It would be especially helpful with a timeline you've devised. People could get more use out of it.

beckygoddess · Post by **beckygoddess** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 2:03 pm

Kat, the information about yesterday's date came from the Superior Court Trial Transcript, a 2-volume hard copy obtained from the Superior Court in New Bedford (via Boston Public Library) back in the late 1970's; also from the Fall River Globe, and Fall River Herald Evening News, newspaper copies and photocopies of newspaper articles which I have, (from the Boston Public Library microfilm room).

I don't have a timeline per se, but I keep notes on 3 x 5 index cards with two cross reference indexes (created in WORD) and printed out and kept in a notebook. The indexes are by subject and by date. Currently I have 16 recipe boxes filled with these notecards, literally thousands of cards, from notes taken over 40 years. My copies of newpaper articles, starting with the Fall River Monitor in the 1840's fills 9 thick 3-ring binders. Plus I have boxes and boxes of actual old newspapers.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 8:56 pm

I have an index to my own sources but I don't claim my index as my source.
Would you prefer I look up these jury citations?

beckygoddess · Post by **beckygoddess** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 9:16 pm

Kat, I don't claim my 16 recipe boxes as a source. I don't believe I said that either. What I *was* citing as sources were te Trial Transcript and specific newspapers. That was in the first paragraph of my post. The second paragraph was in response to your suggesting about a timeline which I don't have, so I was describing what I do have as part of my Bordenia collection. Sorry for the confusion.

theebmonique · Post by **theebmonique** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 9:42 pm

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2005 8:57 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

June 6, 1893 was also a Tuesday and case related events on that date:

Second day of the Superior Court Trial in New Bedford. The Indictment is read; William Moody opened for the Prosecution. It's reported Lizzie fainted and was revived.

Civil Engineer Thomas Kieran was called and gave measurements of the house; testified man could have hid in front entry closet.

Jurors traveled to Fall River and visited the Kelly's house, Wade's store, Crowe's stone yard, Chagnon’s house, Kirby's yard, Alice Russell's house, Gorman's store, Clegg’s store and banks. Tour finished at 4:00 pm.

The Jurors weretaken to Mellen House, Franklin & North Main Street where they spent the night.

If I understand you right...each of these 'events' are in the Trial transcripts...either Volume 1 or Volume 2...correct ? If so, then I am almost there...can you get me any closer...with approximate sections...or page numbers perhaps? THANKS !

Tracy...

beckygoddess · Post by **beckygoddess** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 9:54 pm

The second day of the Trial begins on page 47 of the Trial Transcript, Volume I, ..."the court came in at nine o'clock." Bottom of first page: "Mr. Moody proceeded to make the opening statement on behalf of the Commonwelath, speaking as follows.."
then it continues on page 48. (Keep in mind this is from the Boston Public Library from the microfilm for which I paid for a hard copy print out.)

The report of her fainting and the jurors going to Fall River is reported in Newspapers.

theebmonique · Post by **theebmonique** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 10:03 pm

OK...thanks. I have the New Bedford Evening Standard and the Democrat & Chronicle of Rochester, NY...should I look there ? Or do I need a different newspaper report ? Thanks again.

Tracy...

theebmonique · Post by **theebmonique** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 10:36 pm

I am finding things in the Rochester paper...need to recheck the NBES. I found what I was looking for in the trial transcript vol. 1.

Tracy...

beckygoddess · Post by **beckygoddess** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 11:11 pm

From the New Bedford Daily Mercury, June 7, 1893, and also from the New Bedford Evening Journal page 3 illustrates Lizzie fainting.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/b ... Faints.jpg

This is from the New Bedford Daily Herald, June 7, 1893, page 7 and describes the locations the jury visited in Fall River.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/b ... 7-1893.jpg

This is also from the New Bedford Evening Journal, June 7, 1893, page 3 illustrates the jury at the Borden yard.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/b ... 7-1983.jpg

theebmonique · Post by **theebmonique** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 11:26 pm

Thank you very much.

Tracy...

beckygoddess · Post by **beckygoddess** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 11:33 pm

You're welcome.

john · Post by **john** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 11:40 pm

I guessed the end of the war of 1812 in Iraq.

beckygoddess · Post by **beckygoddess** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 12:19 am

john, I see you are from South Dakota. Are you an HBO Deadwood fan? We absolutely love that show! The writing is, IMHO, the absolute best on television. Rather Shakespearean in it's iambic pantameter - and against that 1870's background - with all the exquisite characters - riveting stuff.
We would plan our Sunday evenings around that program. It seemed everyone in our building did!

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 12:56 am

Whew!

"This is from the New Bedford Daily Herald, June 7, 1893, page 7 and describes the locations the jury visited in Fall River.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/b ... 7-1893.jpg

"--Becky

When this pic is opened is does seem to represent The FallRiver Daily Herald as it's title.
Not to confuse- but to clarify.

theebmonique · Post by **theebmonique** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 2:13 am

Wow...I did not realize there were 3 separate newspapers all in New Bedford. Interesting.

Tracy...

diana · Post by **diana** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 2:52 am

Here's something I don't get. Compare this drawing:

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/b ... 7-1983.jpg

with the drawing on page 218 in Kent's Lizzie Borden Sourcebook

What's going on here? Are they on the other side of the fence? The other side of the house?

If it was a photo, I'd think the image was just reversed. But some of the people are not in the same positions, the shutters on the house are different, and so is the foliage near the barn. Yet the guy holding the bowler hat has found something else in the sky to point at ...

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 3:37 am

That is odd...
Harry says that they took photographs back then and then drew the illustrations from them. Maybe this is one- and maybe the papers shared the expense and the result and each paper's artist changed their depiction a bit? This is my speculation.

diana · Post by **diana** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 11:19 am

Thanks, Kat! I didn't think about some of the depictions being from photos. That makes sense to me now. A photo image of the jurors was probably reversed somewhere along the line and one of those drawings was done from that.

The one in the Sourcebook is from the Boston Globe (datelined New Bedford, June 6) and that's the one that seems to have the house and barn where it should be in relation to the jurors.

Edisto · Post by **Edisto** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 1:02 pm

What's the appropriate gift for the 140th anniversary? 'Stones tickets?

With regard to that reversed photo of the jury and the Borden house: It's possible to reverse a drawing just as a photo is reversed. You take a picture of it and reverse the negative. In this case, the version that appears in the Sourcebook has the correct orientation, showing the north side of the house, where the barn is. If the people had been standing in the south side yard, with the house to their right (north) side, there would have been no barn in the background.

This leads to something that has "always" bothered me. I wonder how many of the pictures of Lizzie are reversed. We all know that our faces are asymetrical, and I'm sure most of us have seen those trick photos in which two left sides (or right sides) of a person's face are put together, making the person look completely different. That's true of everyone's face. In most of Lizzie's photos that I've seen, she is turned slightly away from the camera, so that the left side of her face is more prominent. In only a couple (notably the one taken at Newport shortly after the trial) is she looking full-face into the camera. The one of an older Lizzie with pince-nez actually shows the left side (unless it's reversed). She may have turned slightly in order to make her full face seem less so, or she may have been favoring what she considered to be her "good" side. At any rate, if any of the photos have been reversed, we're probably getting less than a true picture of what she looked like.

beckygoddess · Post by **beckygoddess** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 2:07 pm

Most photo editing software allows for "reversing" the orientation of an image. I've seen several of Lizzie this way. So if you copy a correct image of Lizzie and "reverse" the orientation, she does look slightly different because, as you say edisto, our faces are asymetrical.

And while we're on images of faces, does anyone but me think John Morse was a rather good looking man in his younger pictures?

Allen · Post by **Allen** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 6:42 pm

The picture of Lizzie on the left has been reversed. The picture of Lizzie on the right is the original picture as we know it. What do you think? Is there much of a difference?

john · Post by **john** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 9:38 pm

Hi Beckygoddess. I live pretty close to Deadwood. If you're ever out this way I'll show you around. Deadwood was a cool town in 1876, and it still is a pretty cool town.