Question from new member

pigeonsandpears · Post by **pigeonsandpears** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 3:49 am

Hello! I have been interested in Lizzie since I saw the TV movie years ago. I found this site just a few days ago and was invited to this forum by Stefani Koorey. I thought I knew alot about the case, but you guys blow my mind! I'm afraid I cannot add much to the conversations, but I have already learned so much more by reading the posts here. I have started my own Lizzie site, but I'm afraid I cannot compete with this site! It is amazing! I do hope to create new Lizzie items to be sold through my site though. I have created a Lizzie Paper doll that is currently for sale on ebay. I hope to do alot more interesting things in the future!

I have a question about the TV movie. I doubt this is the topic to post the question in, but I could not find the right place. My question is about the music in the film. The music that is played over the opening and closing credits, was it written for the film or is it an older piece?

Thanks!
Clint

Susan · Post by **Susan** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 4:59 am

Hi Clint, welcome to the Forum. I just checked the credits on my copy of The Legend movie, no mention of a particular song to be found. The music composer is Billy Goldenberg who has a long list of movies and TV shows under his belt. My guess is he composed the music specifically for the movie. Heres a link to the filmography of Billy Goldenberg:

http://www.soundtrack.net/composers/database/?id=342

Harry · Post by **Harry** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 8:09 am

Hi Clint, welcome!

Susan is right on. I also checked the Internet Movie Data Base and it says "Original Music - Billy Goldenburg"

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0073273/fullcredits

There is all different levels of knowledge on the forum so don't be shy about jumping in. If any of us had the answer I would assume they wouldn't be here.

john · Post by **john** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 11:28 am

Hi Clint. Thatis a good question about something important to Lizzieizm.
Who did you origionally think did it, and are you revising your thoughts?

pigeonsandpears · Post by **pigeonsandpears** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 2:16 pm

Well, I was only a small child when I first saw the TV movie and knew nothing of the case before then so of course I thought Lizzie done it. I really have no set idea of who might have done it. I like the idea of Lizzie doing it and most of my artwork does include Lizzie with axe in hand, but I know there are several other people who were likely to have done it also. I personally hope it is never really solved. I like to think Bigfoot done the killings, LOL. No really, I like legends and myths and to me the Borden case is one of the best and I hope the book is never closed.

Clint

pigeonsandpears · Post by **pigeonsandpears** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 2:20 pm

Susan, I love your quote "The cure for boredom is curiosity. There is no cure for curiosity."

There is a cure for curiosity... truth, but curiosity killed the cats!

Little Lizzie · Post by **Little Lizzie** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 5:44 pm

No dear, that was Lizzie. LOL

Susan · Post by **Susan** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 9:14 pm

pigeonsandpears @ Mon Jul 18, 2005 11:20 am wrote:Susan, I love your quote "The cure for boredom is curiosity. There is no cure for curiosity."

There is a cure for curiosity... truth, but curiosity killed the cats!

Thanks, Clint. I love Dorothy Parker's work and thought that quote was soooooo fitting for me; the more questions I get answered, the more questions I seem to have. And being a Leo, I've heard that about curiosity and the cat, but, I have also heard this version which I like:

Curiosity killed the cat, but satisfaction brought her back.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 3:01 am

Hi Clint!

That's the best part of the saying, Susan!

john · Post by **john** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 3:10 am

Did you know, Susan, that the person you quote, and at that time the world's greatest author destroyed themselves?

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 3:37 am

She had attempted suicide and failed a few times. How did she die?

twinsrwe · Post by **twinsrwe** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 9:01 am

Hi Clint, welcome. I have always thought the music for the opening and closing credits in "The Legend of Lizzie Borden" was perfect for the movie. It grabs your attention right away. Good question.

stuartwsa · Post by **stuartwsa** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 10:18 am

It seems to me that the movie was shown on ABC right around the same time, or slightly after, "The Sting" was released. That movie single-handedly brought Scott Joplin and the revival of ragtime to the public's attention., and began a craze that lasted for years. (Remember "The Entertainer"? So many "pianists" learned it so badly that it was twenty five years before I could bear to listen to it again!)
I think that the craze for Joplin's music and the fact that it was appropriate to 1892 had a lot to do with the music for "The Legend Of Lizzie Borden," but I could be wrong.

diana · Post by **diana** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 1:20 pm

According to the Academy of American Poets site, Dorothy Parker died of a heart attack at age 73.

pigeonsandpears · Post by **pigeonsandpears** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 1:57 pm

Yes! The Entertainer always reminded me of the opening music in "Legend of..."

Also something interesting about the movie is that the house and the street were used again in another classic Paramount tv movie called Sybil. There are a few flashbacks where Sybil goes back to her childhood and she lived in the house they used for the Borden's house. You can also see alot of the street and other houses in Sybil. Nothing to do with Lizzie really, but it was neat to see the house in another movie.

Bob Gutowski · Post by **Bob Gutowski** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 2:40 pm

Good call, Stuart! Not only the score, but also the structure of the film is inspired by The Sting. Watch both and notice how the movies are both set up in chapters - and calling one section of Lizzie "The Trump Card" is certainly an in-joke, I'd say.

I was lucky enough to have a best friend who grew up knowing Billy Goldenberg in California, and when we went out there some years ago, we went to his house on Toluca Lake and visited with him. He wrote the entire score, including that slightly "off' rag which opens and closes the film. He told me his was the first TV movie score to mix electronic and non-electronic instruments.

Susan · Post by **Susan** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 9:13 pm

Thanks, Diana. Yes, Dorothy Parker attempted suicide numerous times in her life and obviously never succeeded. I'm not sure to whom John refers?

Thats so cool, Bob! I was told by a musician friend years ago that the instrument used for the Legend music was a Farfisa organ. When I did a quick search of Billy Goldenberg I found out that he accompanies Bea Arthur when she tours.

john · Post by **john** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 1:47 am

Sinclair Lewis, her husband.

Susan · Post by **Susan** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 4:04 am

I believe you are thinking of Dorothy Thompson? Dorothy Parker was only married twice that I know of; her first husband was Edwin Parker and the second was Alan Campbell. In Sinclair Lewis' book Main Street there is commentary by Dorothy Parker amongst others.

john · Post by **john** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 4:06 am

Thank you, Susan.

pigeonsandpears · Post by **pigeonsandpears** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 4:46 am

There is nothing I love more than graphic design... Thought you guys might want to see the Lizzie pic I did today in honor of her Birthday.

john · Post by **john** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 5:00 am

Wow - pigeon - the world's greatest Lizzie pic!

pigeonsandpears · Post by **pigeonsandpears** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 5:14 am

Thanks! I had a little trouble with one side of the face. It looks a little funny. Maybe I'll fix it tomorrow.

Susan · Post by **Susan** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 5:59 am

john @ Wed Jul 20, 2005 1:06 am wrote:Thank you, Susan.

You are welcome, John.

Clint, that is fantastic!!! Did you use airbrush or is that some sort of computer program? I love it, its so cool to see our Lizzie in color.

pigeonsandpears · Post by **pigeonsandpears** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 6:10 am

Thanks Susan! It's all digital art done on the computer.

Ok, let's see how this one looks. I changed the face a tiny bit.

Haulover · Post by **Haulover** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 10:38 am

she's rather intimidating -- like an ominous bird deciding whether to attack.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 8:57 pm

I think she looks about to cry.

Thanks Clint!

pigeonsandpears · Post by **pigeonsandpears** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 1:36 am

Ok, now let's see about Miss Emma...

john · Post by **john** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 2:02 am

I get the Dorothies mixed up. Seems like they were both pretty funny and I remember quotes from each, but can't remember which one should be attributed. Dorothy Thompson was more of a journalist, I think, and must have had quite a life living with Sinclair Lewis for a while.

john · Post by **john** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 2:04 am

I guess I wouldn't want to be sitting with her at breakfast - hey haulover!

Susan · Post by **Susan** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 3:38 am

pigeonsandpears @ Wed Jul 20, 2005 10:36 pm wrote:Ok, now let's see about Miss Emma...

That is really cool, Clint! Your color version makes Emma more solid and real. For some reason, whenever I look at the black and white pic of Emma, she seems so frail and I imagine her voice to be like Billie Burke, Glinda the Good Witch of the North in the Wizard of Oz.

Maybe too much work, but, have you ever thought of doing this sort of thing with the crime scene photos?

pigeonsandpears · Post by **pigeonsandpears** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 4:15 am

I have thought about doing the crime scenes, but that would take forever! They each take about 2-3 hours. The crime scene photos have alot more information in the picture than these portraits, so I would guess they would take about 5 hours each! I have to do the whole thing in one sitting (or else I can't get them to look right) so I doubt I will be doing the crime scenes. I just finished Andrew and I will be doing Abby later. I think I'm going to have them put on a set of porselaine plates and display them in the curio.

pigeonsandpears · Post by **pigeonsandpears** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 4:27 am

If anyone knows where I can find a GOOD pic of Abby, please let me know. I have found a few, but they seem to have been poorly scanned.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 4:46 am

pigeonsandpears @ Thu Jul 21, 2005 4:15 am wrote:I have thought about doing the crime scenes, but that would take forever! They each take about 2-3 hours. The crime scene photos have alot more information in the picture than these portraits, so I would guess they would take about 5 hours each! I have to do the whole thing in one sitting (or else I can't get them to look right) so I doubt I will be doing the crime scenes. I just finished Andrew and I will be doing Abby later. I think I'm going to have them put on a set of porselaine plates and display them in the curio.

Are you going to put them on plates and sell them?
Stef said you were talented. This Emma is really well done-- 3-D-ish.

pigeonsandpears · Post by **pigeonsandpears** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 6:38 am

Whew! Just finished Abby and boy is my hand cramping!

I doubt I will sell them. The plates cost $25 each to make and then I would have to mark them up to make a profit so I doubt anyone would pay that much for them. All the others look kind of 3-D. I may do the Lizzie over to make it match a little better.

Haulover · Post by **Haulover** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 9:41 pm

nice work. almost like a photo of a sculpture or a doll.

the pattern on emma's dress is interesting. did you find that in the photo or superimpose one?

pigeonsandpears · Post by **pigeonsandpears** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 10:13 pm

It was on the dress she was wearing in the original photo. I just superimposed it over the pic. I adjusted it it and made it a little more visible and added the little orange specks to give it more colour.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 11:17 pm

If you can sell this stuff, you should.
It's really very good.

pigeonsandpears · Post by **pigeonsandpears** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 12:34 am

Guess I could list the Lizzie plate on ebay and see how it does. Doubt there would be much of a market for the others.

Anyone know if the FRHS sells copies of the Borden photos in their collection?

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 3:11 am

They used to. But not lately that I know of. You might call them or e-mail them and ask.
508-679-1071
or
http://lizzieborden.org/contact.asp