In the Doctors Hands

Allen · Post by **Allen** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 12:03 pm

I guess we seem to have gotten off topic in another thread so I will start a new one dealing with Dr. Bowen and the note in case anyone would like to continue that conversation in this thread. Here is the link to the original thread started by Harry.

viewtopic.php?t=1436

Allen · Post by **Allen** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 6:39 pm

Does everyone think that the scenario of Lizzie being smitten with Dr. Bowen is too far fetched? Personally I don't think so. I think this issue is very intriguing and I would like to keep the conversation going to see where it might lead. I'll try not to repost very much from the other thread but I'm not sure of the protocol for starting a new thread based on information from another.

Dr. Bowen and Lizzie had already caused a stir by attending church together. So even if Dr. Bowen was just trying to be neighborly and friendly it's possible Lizzie could've mistaken his attentions for something they were not. Or it's possible they were carrying on an affair of some sort. As DWilly stated in his post from the other thread.

DWilly Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 2:35 pm:

"Two things stand out for me on this whole Dr. Bowen thing. One, I don't think he liked Andrew. Andrew treated him like a second class citizen. Second, I always thought it was rather odd how Bowen seemed to have such warm feelings toward Lizzie and yet, he was so indifferent to the rest of the Borden family."

What would've been the occassion that allowed a married man to attend church services with his unmarried 28 year old neighbor? He stated in his testimony that the only occassion he had to be inside the Borden home was on business when someone was ill. So how did he and Lizzie get so friendly? Where did they get the opportunity to become so friendly that they attended church together? It was evidently outside the Borden home.There is evidence that people of Fall River at the time held suspicions about Dr. Bowen and Lizzie as well. Had Mrs. Bowen heard these rumors? How would she react to them?

I also find it odd that he would take it upon himself to tear up a note in the Borden home on the day of murders, then try and piece it back together, and then burn it. I don't believe it belonged to him at all. He also appeared not to know the contents of the note. Officer Harrington testified that he saw the name "Emma" in the upper left hand corner.Kat was kind enough to post that the name of Dr. Bowen's daughter was Florence, and not Emma. I won't repost my entire post from the other thread but these are my theories on Lizzie's possible feelings for Dr. Bowen. Maybe this also explain the hurried move after Lizzie was aquitted. Maybe it was partly in order move away from the Bowen's out of embarrassment, along with an I'll show them attitude for the people of Fall River, and a longing to live in style.

"This could also explain why Lizzie sent for DR. BOWEN first. Dr. Bowen was also one of the people shut up into her room with her for a good deal of time on that day. A member of the police Force seemed to describe him as almost guarding the door. It could also explain why Mrs. Bowen was sent away by her husband. What can upset a woman more than having the rival to her affections present? Even if the affair was only going on in Lizzie's mind, a sort of unrequited crush that Bowen was fully aware of but could do nothing about, it kind of makes sense. Lizzie had never been married, no beau existed that we can conclusively prove as anything other than rumor, I'm sure she was very lonely. It would only be human for her to be lonely. An extremely lonley woman could have fallen for Dr. Bowen, fantasized about the two of them being together, or completely mistaken his intentions toward her by seeing only what she wanted to see. "

snokkums · Post by **snokkums** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 6:42 pm

Allen,
I am at a loss here, what was the note? Was it something to do with him coming to the house? I have tried to find the post you are talking about, but I am probably looking in the wrong place. thanks

Allen · Post by **Allen** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 6:52 pm

The Witness Statements page 6:

After leaving her, I went down in the kitchen where was Dr. Bowen, Asst. Fleet, Dr. Dolan, Bridget and several others. Dr. Bowen had scraps of paper in his hand, on which there was some writing. He and I spoke about them, and he tried to put some of them together. He said " it is nothing, it is something about, I think, my daughter going through somewhere." If I recollect correctly, it was addressed to Emma, but about that I am not sure. The Doctor then said " it does not amount to anything", and taking the lid off the stove, he dropped the pieces in. There was very little fire in the stove, and the ashes which were on top looked as though paper had been burned there.

Trial testimony of Philip Harrington page 566-568:

Q. When you got into the kitchen who was there?
A. Well, there was quite a number of people, among whom I recognized Drs. Bowen and Dolan, assistant marshal Fleet, and the servant girl, whose name at the time I did not know.

Q. Did anything occur with reference to the stove in the kitchen?
A. Yes, sir. Just as I went to pass by Dr. Bowen, between him and the stove, I saw some scraps of note paper in his hand. I asked him what they were.

Q. You say you saw Dr. Bowen with some scraps of note paper in his hand?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. Where was he standing?
A. He was standing a little west of the door that lead into the rear hall or entryway.

Q. Go on and describe what was done and what you and Dr. Bowen said, not what anyone else did.
A. I asked him what they were, referring to the pieces of paper, and he said, " Oh, I guess it is nothing."

MR. ROBINSON. I cannot let this go in unless you give me an assurance that it has nothing whatever to do with it.

MR. KNOWLTON. It has nothing to do with the case at all.

MR. ROBINSON. You claim the paper has no significance.

MR. KNOWLTON. Well, he said it has no significance.

THE WITNESS. So he started to arrange them so as to determine what was on them, or to learn their contents. They were very small and it was rather difficult, but on one piece, on the upper left hand corner, was the word “Emma". And that was written in lead pencil, as well as the other pieces I saw.

Q. Now then, what did you do with the paper?
A. I asked him again what they contained, and he said, “Oh I think it is nothing. It is something, I think, about my daughter going through somewhere." He then turned slightly to his left and took the lid from the stove and threw the papers in, or the pieces in.

Q. Now then, did you observe anything as he lifted the lid from the stove?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. Go on and state what you did and what you observed.
A.I noticed the firebox. The fire was very near extinguished. On the south end there was a small fire which I judged was a coal fire. The embers were about dieing. It was about as large as the palm of my hand. There had been some paper burned in there before, which was rolled up and still held a cylindrical form.

Q. Now will you describe the roll of burned paper by measuring it with your hands, please?
A. Well I should say it was about that long. (Indicating) Twelve inches I should say.

Q. And how long in diameter?
A. well, not over two inches.

I added the extra testimony about the burned paper that was already in the stove because it has always intrigued me. What was it? But it would appear from the testimony that Dr. Bowen had no knowledge of what was on that piece of note paper.

( SORRY ALL I accidentally edited the wrong post, don't ask me how, but I returned it the best I could to the way it was before I messed it up. I'm having a bad week, forgive me

)

Smudgeman · Post by **Smudgeman** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:47 pm

I am in agreement that Dr. Bowen is a very important link to this puzzle. Why would he accompany Lizzie to church when he had a wife and daughter? Did they approve or even know about this arrangement? I agree with Allen that perhaps Lizzie thought and fantasized about them being together as a romantic couple, after all, he was her doctor for about 12 years I think. For some reason I believe that Lizzie was angry about Abby visiting Dr. Bowen after she and Andrew became ill, and Andrew being rude to him like he has probably been to him for many years. If she had an affection for the doctor, she probably wanted to apologize for her parents bad behavior. The nerve of Abby disturbing the good doctor, and then Father treating him like a second class citizen.
The piece of scrap paper in the stove is a mystery too, why would he be allowed to determine if it was worthy of a piece of evidence in a murder trial anyway? He claimed it said something about Emma and his daughter? Very strange, why would his daughter be involved with this scenario? I wish we knew more about what this scrap piece of paper said?

doug65oh · Post by **doug65oh** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 8:12 pm

Strange way to put it, but those were the days when a respected physician could just about get away with murder (or in this instance determining what was and was not relevant) or destroying evidence in what otherwise was a live crime scene. Doctors just did not do things like that - they wouldn't dare!

DWilly · Post by **DWilly** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 8:21 pm

I'm kind of leaning in the direction that Dr. Bowen may have had some pretty darn warm feelings toward Lizzie. Although, I do differ with some of you on Lizzie's emotions. Here's my take thus far:

I think Lizzie was a lesbian. The thing is she was living way back in 1892, so there was a ton of pressure on her to be straight. I think that contributed to some of her emotional problems. I think it's possible that Lizzie, like so many gays and lesbians, tried very hard to fit in and be straight. Well, along comes the older, kinder, gentler and I might add rather handsome Dr. Bowen. Lizzie may have felt fairly comfortable with the good doctor. So much so, that she may have thought she had feelings for him or at least hoped she could. Dr. Bowen may have been a bit unhappy in his marriage. Enough so, that he and Lizzie may have gotten pretty close. How close I don't know for sure. Maybe they did have a short romantic fling. I don't know. I can't see them having a full blown affair and then showing up together in church. A place were tongues where bound to wag. Maybe Lizzie just hit on him or maybe she told him something in private. He was a doctor after all, so maybe he was helping her out emotionally too. Either way, Dr. Bowen I think may have covered up something while he was in the house. He was going to protect Lizzie.

Audrey · Post by **Audrey** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 9:50 pm

Dr. Bowen may have escorted Lizzie to church merely to provide her an escort...

They lived near to one another and may have been leaving their homes at the same time and any gentleman would have offered to accompany a lady to and from her destination, especially in those times.

If Lizzie had actually intended to send for a physician that morning-- legitimately believing one was needed-- who else would she send for but the family doctor across the street?

Didn't Ms. Lincoln speculate about Dr. Bowen's good looks and 'devastating bedside manner'? Was he known to be a dandy? Was he widely thought of as good looking? There is probably no way we can ever know this.

Lizzie may have indulged in a little hero worship--and she may have indeed developed a crush on the good doctor.. (Of course she would have been much better off with Dr. Chagnon!)

I also believe Lizzie was a lesbian. This is the woman who did not faint and was the 'Sphinx of Coldness' all through her trial. I do not see her as the type who would be giggling and fantasizing about the married man across the street....

Harry · Post by **Harry** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 11:20 pm

Hi Audrey, hope your ear is better.

I agree that Dr. Bowen's escorting of Lizzie to church was not anything of a romantic nature.

When Andrew left the Central Congregational church Emma left also. I am not sure about Abby. Lizzie and Abby are mentioned as going to church together but I don't know if that was after Andrew left or not.

The thing I found curious about her attending with Dr. Borden was that he was a Baptist and she a Congregationalist. How much of a difference is there between the two sects I have no idea. If he went there just to escort Lizzie that would be interesting.

Allen · Post by **Allen** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 1:21 am

Harry @ Mon Oct 17, 2005 10:20 pm wrote:Hi Audrey, hope your ear is better.

I agree that Dr. Bowen's escorting of Lizzie to church was not anything of a romantic nature.

When Andrew left the Central Congregational church Emma left also. I am not sure about Abby. Lizzie and Abby are mentioned as going to church together but I don't know if that was after Andrew left or not.

The thing I found curious about her attending with Dr. Borden was that he was a Baptist and she a Congregationalist. How much of a difference is there between the two sects I have no idea. If he went there just to escort Lizzie that would be interesting.

Evidently the people of Fall River believed otherwise, or there wouldn't have been any tongues wagging on the subject of them attending the service together. It is a very interesting point Harry raised about Bowen being a Baptist and Lizzie being a Congregationalist. From what I can surmise from just doing some research on the internet they seem to be the same?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baptist

http://www.mercer.edu/baptiststudies/CT ... mHTML.html

http://www.wacklepedia.com/b/ba/baptist.html

Audrey says that they lived near to one another and may have been leaving at the same time and he offered to escort her. Where was his wife?? Wouldn't she have been leaving to attend church with her husband? Would she have been ok with him escorting the neighbors daughter?

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 3:23 am

I have a few questions here:

DWilly Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 2:35 pm:

"Two things stand out for me on this whole Dr. Bowen thing. One, I don't think he liked Andrew. Andrew treated him like a second class citizen. Second, I always thought it was rather odd how Bowen seemed to have such warm feelings toward Lizzie and yet, he was so indifferent to the rest of the Borden family."

--What, please, are the sources for these statements, that Andrew treated Bowen like a second class citizen, and that Bowen was indifferent to the rest of the family other than Lizzie?

Then, Allen says:

I also find it odd that he would take it upon himself to tear up a note in the Borden home on the day of murders, then try and piece it back together, and then burn it. I don't believe it belonged to him at all. He also appeared not to know the contents of the note. Officer Harrington testified that he saw the name "Emma" in the upper left hand corner.

--Where do we know that Bowen tore up a note- and where do we know he was trying to piece it back together?
That's not what the testimony says. Also, you say that it was testified to that Harrington saw the name "Emma." In the Witness Statements, which you posted, he says, close to the time of the incident, when it was fresh in his mind that : "If I recollect correctly, it was addressed to Emma, but about that I am not sure." 10 months later at trial, is Harrington more sure than on the day?

The phrase: "torn up note" has been bandied about, but it does not exactly describe what has been testified to.
Also, can you show how long Bowen was with Lizzie in her room, since the subjective phrase was used: "for a good deal of time on that day."

Thanks you guys, in advance.

Susan · Post by **Susan** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 4:31 am

I was just thinking something that may amount to nothing, but, what if Dr. Bowen had actually said of the paper scraps not my daughter, but instead, the daughter? Which if it was a note he had addressed to Emma, it would be about Lizzie and her future plans for travel, perhaps a rough draft of the note Lizzie had Andrew mail to Emma? I'm still trying to figure if it was indeed a note to Dr. Bowen about his daughter going through somewhere, why was the name Emma on it, why was it torn up, and why was he trying to piece it together as if to try and read it if he already knew the contents of the note?

Then the thought occured to me that Dr. Bowen did say my daughter meaning Lizzie, a fraudian slip perhaps?

snokkums · Post by **snokkums** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 4:58 am

Smudgeman @ Mon Oct 17, 2005 6:47 pm wrote:I am in agreement that Dr. Bowen is a very important link to this puzzle. Why would he accompany Lizzie to church when he had a wife and daughter? Did they approve or even know about this arrangement? I agree with Allen that perhaps Lizzie thought and fantasized about them being together as a romantic couple, after all, he was her doctor for about 12 years I think. For some reason I believe that Lizzie was angry about Abby visiting Dr. Bowen after she and Andrew became ill, and Andrew being rude to him like he has probably been to him for many years. If she had an affection for the doctor, she probably wanted to apologize for her parents bad behavior. The nerve of Abby disturbing the good doctor, and then Father treating him like a second class citizen.
The piece of scrap paper in the stove is a mystery too, why would he be allowed to determine if it was worthy of a piece of evidence in a murder trial anyway? He claimed it said something about Emma and his daughter? Very strange, why would his daughter be involved with this scenario? I wish we knew more about what this scrap piece of paper said?

I think, as for taking lizzie to church when he had a wife and child, it was because he was their doctor, and probably a family friend. So maybe he was just trying to comfort her in the time of need. I think too he is a part of the puzzle, and the note is important. Curious to know what really was in the note, something to look up in the arhives, and it is a mystery.

Harry · Post by **Harry** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 7:33 am

We've speculated on the pieces of paper Dr. Bowen burned in the past. I can't remember who said what but one theory was that the piece of paper had writing on both sides. One side may have referred to Bowen's daughter and the other side notes that he had made for Emma's trip home from Fairhaven.

He did go to his house to consult the train schedule and I presume that info was conveyed to Emma. He may have just written it down on any piece of paper he had in his pocket at the time.

Although not related to Dr. Bowen's note there is this reference to torn pieces that appeared in the Boston Globe on Aug. 9th:

"... The letter, alleged in Lizzie's story to have been received by Mrs. Borden on Thursday morning from a sick friend asking her attendance, was searched for immediately after the discovery of the murder. In the waste basket in the library the officers found a number of letters torn in pieces. By putting them together the letters were all read without difficulty, but there was not a trace found of the note Lizzie claimed was received by her mother."

These torn letters found in the wastebasket in the "library" sort of puts the lie to the theory that the Bordens put their letters in the stove, at least immediately. It's strange that a person would go through the trouble of tearing up a letter and throwing it in the wastebasket when the stove was but a few feet away.

That also applies to Dr. Bowen. I don't believe he was seen doing the actual tearing but he had the pieces in his hand. I think it's a safe assumption he did the tearing. Why he would bother tearing the paper when he was going to throw it into the fire is suspicious.

Angel · Post by **Angel** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 11:33 am

Do you think it's possible that the information about what Bowen said about the note was passed on to others wrong? Maybe he was reading the note and the "my daughter" bit was part of what he was reading off the paper. It could have been written by Abby talking about Emma, and that's why her name was on it.

Allen · Post by **Allen** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 11:54 am

Kat @ Tue Oct 18, 2005 2:23 am wrote:
--Where do we know that Bowen tore up a note- and where do we know he was trying to piece it back together?
That's not what the testimony says. Also, you say that it was testified to that Harrington saw the name "Emma." In the Witness Statements, which you posted, he says, close to the time of the incident, when it was fresh in his mind that : "If I recollect correctly, it was addressed to Emma, but about that I am not sure." 10 months later at trial, is Harrington more sure than on the day?

That was an answer to the statement you made in the other thread:

"Kat Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 1:49 am Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't think Bowen was shut up in her room with Lizzie for very long. We can check that timing, if you want.
Also, what Bowen burned seemed to be some pieces of paper of his own. We can check that too. "

Allen · Post by **Allen** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 12:10 pm

Ok let me hope that I don't hit the wrong button again,

. The idea that you put forth in the other thread that the pieces of paper seemed to belong to Bowen is where I get that he most probably was the one to tear them up if they belonged to him. Which I don't believe.

The Witness Statements page 6:

After leaving her, I went down in the kitchen where was Dr. Bowen, Asst. Fleet, Dr. Dolan, Bridget and several others. Dr. Bowen had scraps of paper in his hand, on which there was some writing. He and I spoke about them, and he tried to put some of them together. He said " it is nothing, it is something about, I think, my daughter going through somewhere." If I recollect correctly, it was addressed to Emma, but about that I am not sure. The Doctor then said " it does not amount to anything", and taking the lid off the stove, he dropped the pieces in. There was very little fire in the stove, and the ashes which were on top looked as though paper had been burned there.

Trial testimony of Philip Harrington page 566-568:

THE WITNESS. So he started to arrange them so as to determine what was on them, or to learn their contents. They were very small and it was rather difficult, but on one piece, on the upper left hand corner, was the word “Emma". And that was written in lead pencil, as well as the other pieces I saw.

And this is where I get the idea he was trying to piece them back together. So the question remains the same. Why would he have a note that belongs to him, which is torn up into small pieces, and be trying to piece it back together in the middle of a crime scene? And why didn't he know what it said if it belonged to him?

DWilly · Post by **DWilly** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 12:56 pm

Allen @ Tue Oct 18, 2005 12:10 pm wrote:And this is where I get the idea he was trying to piece them back together. So the question remains the same. Why would he have a note that belongs to him, which is torn up into small pieces, and be trying to piece it back together in the middle of a crime scene? And why didn't he know what it said if it belonged to him?

I would like to know where he even found this torn up note? On the floor? In the trash? What made him pick it up?

DWilly · Post by **DWilly** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 1:02 pm

Kat @ Tue Oct 18, 2005 3:23 am wrote: --What, please, are the sources for these statements, that Andrew treated Bowen like a second class citizen, and that Bowen was indifferent to the rest of the family other than Lizzie?

.

I had read that when Abby went to Dr. Bowen and told him she was ill that Andrew got mad and said something about how his money wasn't going to pay for the visit. I also read that Lizzie didn't like the way Andrew treated Dr. Bowen. I think it's when she was talking to Alice Russell. Later on when I have more time I'll look up the whole account. I think it was the day before Andrew and Abby were killed. I also recall in Dr. Bowen's testimony that he more or less said he didn't really hang out with the Borden's all that much.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 7:37 pm

Thank you DWilly. That is getting close to source- I appreciate it.

Do you all see that this *note* information needs to be definite, according to testimony, by the questions asked here by members? This has gone from pieces of paper, to being interpretated as a "note." We can't make assumptions based on exaggerations or not be precise when we discuss the intricacies. This is not a lesson to be taught but rather a caution to be made. We can go far afield and confuse a lot of people, unless we stick to what is real. Otherwise, we have to say something like "I think this happened..." or "I think possibly he..."

As far as I can tell, these peces of paper have been assumed to be torn. Assumed to belong in the case as evidence. Granted, Bowen should not be contaminating a crime scene with pieces of paper that are possibly his own, but he did.

Putting pieces of paper together to read what is on them:
In my experience, I have lots of little pieces of paper- scraps of paper- with notes on them. I have them in my study area. I have them in my purse. Some are very small scraps which are a list of groceries.
Since Dr. Bowen seems to be a busy physician with a practice, he may have all sorts of pieces of paper in his pockets upon which he keeps notes. Then, he will want to read them before he gets rid of them.
My only point is to not read anything extra into his actions which is not specifically in testimony or in the Witness Statements, unless it is qualified as being a subjective opinion.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 7:38 pm

Harry, was the newspaper record which you posted written by Trickey? Just wondering.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 7:51 pm

Bowen got there around 11:25 [W.S.10], left to send a telegram returning about 11:40 [Trial 322], said he was there until 12:30 or 1 [Prelim 405], then went up to see Lizzie in her room between 1 and 2 PM [Trial 326].
Fleet saw Lizzie and Bowen, in her room, about 2 hours after he got there, which would be about 1:45 PM [W.S.2].

At some point Bowen went home, I think, and returned, not including the telegram errand.
So far, I am trying to find where Bowen went home, so I can tell how long he was with Lizzie in her room.
My WORD application quit for now.

Allen · Post by **Allen** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 2:02 am

Ok, I will state that it's my opinion this was a note of some kind, because Harrington stated that he saw writing on the pieces of paper. It's also my opinion that it was torn up because Harrington stated the pieces were very small and hard to read. He said that Dr. Bowen was "putting them together" to see if he could figure out what they said. I would think a Doctor would take better notes than writing on small pieces of scrap paper which he then kept in his pocket. Whether he was a busy man or not I would hope he had learned by his trade to be more organized than this. Doctors are always writing prescriptions, and taking down details about their patients. Paperwork is a part of their trade. I would not have much faith in a doctor who kept little notes to himself on tiny scraps of paper in his pocket that were so small they were hard to read. I would think a doctor would keep a note pad handy. But again this is just my opinion.

Harry · Post by **Harry** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 9:13 am

Kat @ Tue Oct 18, 2005 7:38 pm wrote:Harry, was the newspaper record which you posted written by Trickey? Just wondering.

Yes, it was Kat.

A similar paragraph appeared in the NY Times on Aug. 14th:

"... The note which Mrs. Borden is said to have received could not be found, and Miss Borden explained that by suggesting that it had probably been torn up. In a basket in the house were found fragments of several notes, but when they were pieced together the note to Mrs. Borden was found to be not among them."

Allen · Post by **Allen** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 5:59 pm

Angel @ Tue Oct 18, 2005 10:33 am wrote:Do you think it's possible that the information about what Bowen said about the note was passed on to others wrong? Maybe he was reading the note and the "my daughter" bit was part of what he was reading off the paper. It could have been written by Abby talking about Emma, and that's why her name was on it.

Maybe he said, "It is nothing, it is something about, I think, my daughter going through somewhere ", as if he was reading that part from the paper ? That's an interesting possibility. Susan also alluded to a possible misunderstanding which was similar to this. It's too bad we can't really prove what his intended meaning was, or know for sure what was on those scraps of paper! Any way I look at it I find it suspicious.

Thanks Harry for the newspaper transcriptions, and thanks DWilly for that interesting new perspective on Andrew and doctor Bowen. I'm looking forward to hearing more about your theory when you get the time. I had never given thought to the idea that the relationship between Andrew and Dr. Bowen could possibly have been strained. I agree with Harry that tearing, if this is what happened, and then burning the pieces of paper was suspect. It was almost as if he didn't want anyone to really get a chance to get a look at what was on them.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 10:00 pm

DWilly refers to the letter Miss Alice Russell wrote to Mr. Moody which is published in The Knowlton Papers, pages 227-229. Also her Trial testimony includes some of these things she tells in the letter.
The letter is a recreation in writing of what Lizzie said to her Wednesday night when Lizzie came over.
Thus, it is Lizzie's words, recalled by Alice and then written down and submitted, 10 months later, shy one day. The principal characters in the letter are dead, except for Lizzie and Dr. Bowen.

When you read Bowen's testimony, he sounds as if it was no big deal about his visit to Andrew on Wednesday. Meanwhile, Lizzie was telling this tale to Alice about Bowen's visit- yet Bowen pretty much believed that Lizzie went upstairs as soon as he entered the house. So unless she was spying or listening, how would she know what went on between Bowen and Andrew in the sitting room?

Inquest
116
Dr. Bowen
Q. Do you recollect what it was you prescribed for her?
A. I told her to take some castor oil, and take it in a little port wine to take the taste off, and probably that would be all she would want. I think immediately after breakfast, I thought they were neighbors, I would just go over. Before that, she said Lizzie came down, she heard them vomiting, I think she was in the next room, and she was up too, and she commenced to vomit at that time, about twelve. I thought if they did not call me I would go over and make a friendly call. I went over after breakfast. I think Bridget let me in, I am very sure it was the front door. I says “Mr. Borden, what is the matter?” He looked at me and wanted to know if anybody had sent for me. I told him no, Mrs. Borden was over, I thought I would just come over and see. He seemed well enough then. He said he felt a little heavy, and did not feel just right, but said he did not think he needed any medicine. I did not urge him at all, of course, and I went home. I did not think much about it. I saw Mr. Borden out two or three hours afterwards. When I went in, I saw Lizzie run up stairs. Mrs. Borden I did not see, because I had seen her before.
Q. Did you see Lizzie that morning?
A. She was just going up stairs as I went in the front door; I thought it was her, I am not quite sure.
Q. It was somebody you thought was Lizzie?
A. Yes Sir, somebody I supposed was Lizzie, I did not see her face.
Q. And did not talk to her?
A. No Sir.

However, at the trial, Bowen says he lived across the street from the Bordens for 21 years, yet was only their physician for the last 12. Maybe he was busy at the hospital before that time when they became his clients or maybe their regular doctor moved away or died?

297
Q. During the time that you have lived at that house Mr. Borden and his family lived in the house opposite you?
A. Yes, sir, most of the time.

Q. Substantially so?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. Have you been the family physician for some time?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. For how long, sir?
A. I should say a dozen years probably.

Q. During that time have you had social as well as business- professional relations?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. Have you at all visited at the house?
A. Very seldom except on business.

Q. What has been your dealing with them largely, --- professional or social?
A. About equal.

Q. About equal?
A. Yes, sir.

DWilly · Post by **DWilly** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 10:33 pm

Kat:

When you read Bowen's testimony, he sounds as if it was no big deal about his visit to Andrew on Wednesday.

Maybe Dr. Bowen was use to Andrew's grumpy ways and didn't think that much of it. He knew how Andrew was.

Dr. Bowen:

Q. Have you at all visited at the house?
A. Very seldom except on business.

Q. What has been your dealing with them largely, --- professional or social?
A. About equal.

Now when I read this it doesn't seem like Dr. Bowen and Andrew are all that close. Of course maybe Andrew wasn't close to anyone. Out of the whole family maybe Lizzie was the closest to being a social butterfly. I wouldn't be surprised if when Dr. Bowen took Lizzie to church that was the one and only time he really did socialize with a Borden. At least in a way we today would view as socializing.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 12:00 am

I'm not sure why you are replying in bold?
Is the reference I gave the one you were looking for- Alice's letter to Moody in the Knowlton Papers?

I agree that Bowen and Andrew may not have been "close."
It does sound as if they had had some *business* dealings, other than doctor/patient, tho, doesn't it? Of course, they wouldn't need to be friends just to do business.

Mrs. Dr. Bowen seems closer to Abby as a friend, and Mrs. Miller, Mrs. Dr. Bowen's mother, supposedly claimed that Abby was a good friend and neighbor. If there is a question afoot that Bowen and Lizzie had been carrying on, I'd think (my opinion) that these women would not be friends if there was the slightest hint that Lizzie and Bowen had been close.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 12:10 am

Dr. Bowen has some issues, obviously- but I don't know why:
He is asked if he had had tears in his eyes after seeing Andrew dead and he denies this, sounding indignant. (He *sounded* indignant by claiming he'd like to know how many people claimed they saw him with tears). He says he only thought that Abby had died of fright, and that after observing her he knew differently. Someone had to have said this for him to be asked. So another denial. And also he has to be reminded in court about how he described Lizzie's dress that day. His former testimony is read back to him and he argues a lot (Or maybe more like *nonresponsive* ), sounding impatient. Then there is the statement in the Witness Statements attributed to him- asking the investigator if "another agent of death" had been found. All these things are suspicious, too, I think. (pg. 19- possibly Harrington).

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 12:23 am

I'm still trying tofigure out how long Bowen was with Lizzie in her room.
I found where he says he returned late for the autopsy, "a little after 3." (T324) (But then that started late as well, due to the photographing).

On page 326 he says he went to Lizzie's room between 1 & 2 PM- this is when Alice came down to get him.
He says he left a second dose of Bromo Caffeine to be repeated in an hour, but on page 329 he said he saw Lizzie take the Bromo 2 times, between 1 and 2 PM.

He said he carried over some in a bottle (from his home) but Moody says that was "Thursday night", and Bowen does not disagree.

Sometime around or after 2 he would have had to leave, in order to return after 3 for the autopsy.

I really doubt he was in Lizzie's room for an hour- he seems to be too busy for that. But he says he saw her take 2 doses in an hour, but that he left a second dose. Maybe he gave her a dose at 1, was with her a little, left a second dose and left the room, returning in time to see her take the second dose around 2? We still need to find out when he left the Borden house.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 12:25 am

Not to inundate everyone with info, but I also found where Bowen says he took "notes" for Dolan about Mrs. Borden's body about 12 PM.
What time did Harrington say some pieces of paper were put in the stove by Bowen?

DWilly · Post by **DWilly** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 9:50 am

Kat @ Thu Oct 20, 2005 12:00 am wrote:I'm not sure why you are replying in bold?
Is the reference I gave the one you were looking for- Alice's letter to Moody in the Knowlton Papers?

I agree that Bowen and Andrew may not have been "close."
It does sound as if they had had some *business* dealings, other than doctor/patient, tho, doesn't it? Of course, they wouldn't need to be friends just to do business.

Mrs. Dr. Bowen seems closer to Abby as a friend, and Mrs. Miller, Mrs. Dr. Bowen's mother, supposedly claimed that Abby was a good friend and neighbor. If there is a question afoot that Bowen and Lizzie had been carrying on, I'd think (my opinion) that these women would not be friends if there was the slightest hint that Lizzie and Bowen had been close.

I used the bold type because I wanted to make sure my responses were clear from the quotes. I know in the past there has been some confusion about quotes so, I wanted to make a clear separation between quotes and response to hopefully make the reading a tad clearer.

I really don't know for sure what if anything went on between Lizzie and Dr. Bowen. It just seems to me he is trying on some level to protect her. Maybe. It could be he just had a sort of father/daughter type thing for her.

DWilly · Post by **DWilly** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 10:01 am

I wonder if Dr. Bowen had tears in his eyes (if he in fact did) because the minute he saw the body he knew Lizzie was the killer? A little theory I'm kicking around is maybe, Lizzie had talked to Dr. Bowen about a few things. It seems to me Lizzie had more than a few emotional problems and maybe back then she couldn't or wouldn't go see a psychiatrist. I don't know how wide spread the study of psychology was back then. Anyway, maybe she went to Dr. Bowen with some of her problems? Maybe he was well aware of how much she hated Abby?

Allen · Post by **Allen** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 12:45 pm

Kat @ Wed Oct 19, 2005 11:25 pm wrote:Not to inundate everyone with info, but I also found where Bowen says he took "notes" for Dolan about Mrs. Borden's body about 12 PM.
What time did Harrington say some pieces of paper were put in the stove by Bowen?

In my opinion it would be highly doubtful that the notes taken by Dr. Bowen about Abby's body for Dr. Dolan would've had anything to do with what he threw into the stove. If it were the case he would've said so when asked what they were, and what their contents were, I should think. Instead of giving vague answers about it being” something about my daughter going through somewhere”, and then "it is nothing." They were NOT nothing. I would also think that a Doctor would not choose any old scrap pieces of paper to take down notes of such import as these in a murder investigation. Nor do I think any of them would’ve been torn up and disposed of afterward. But they were also taken for Dr. Dolan, which to me gives the impression they were turned over to Dr. Dolan after they were through.

Harrington The Witness Statements page 6:

I arrived at the house at about 12:15 or 12:20 M. The conversation with Lizzie was about five minutes later.

She was dressed in a stripped house wrapper, full waist, and caught on the side by a bright red ribbon, which was tied in a bow in front. The stripes were on a pink shade, and between them the figure was dark.

After leaving her, I went down in the kitchen where was Dr. Bowen, Asst. Fleet, Dr. Dolan, Bridget and several others. Dr. Bowen had scraps of paper in his hand, on which there was some writing....."

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 12:30 am

I see it as possible that when Bowen made notes for Dolan, that he separated them out from the notes he had of his own. Not that he would throw away the notes on the body, but that he might be cleaning out his pockets so that things like the telegram address and Dolan's notes and his own notes on his daily practice were distinguished from each other.
He seems to me to have been fazed and dazed a bit by the day's activities. If he's ditching pieces of paper into the stove, he seems to me to be doing it possobly in an absent-minded manner.
Whatever happened to these notes for Dolan, Dolan lost his notes as well.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 12:35 am

I don't think Bowen admits to ever really treating Lizzie, does he, prior to the murder day?
If she considered him her friend, she might talk to him about home stresses I suppose.
I think we did figure out that back then, doctor/patient privledge did not necessarilly apply.
He did testify to his treatment of her, after all.

Allen · Post by **Allen** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 8:20 am

Kat,

What I alluded to before but maybe didn't explain enough was my opinion that a doctor would use a note book for such things as taking down information about his patients and taking down details about Abby's body. This would be more organized than carrying around loose note paper and stuffing it in one's pocket. Paper from a note book would not need to be torn out and stuffed in one's pocket, it would be easier to keep all of your notes in one place, and easier to carry. It would also be easier to keep your notes together until such a time as you might put them in a patient’s folder or something of that nature. This is my opinion. I would think every doctor would carry one for occasions of business. It would make more sense than carrying around note paper and folding it up for each patient and putting it in your pocket. Can you imagine doctors today doing this? Even police officers carried note pads to take down note about the crime. I would think that any professional that was required to take a voluminous amount of notes would.

nbcatlover · Post by **nbcatlover** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 4:42 pm

It wasn't that long before the murders that barbers were the doctors in many communities.

I found the denial of "tears in his eyes" somehow very moving. It sound to me like a macho thing--I'm too much of a man to cry. Just because Andrew was gruff and tough, it doesn't mean that people didn't like him or at least, respect him. He gave out private mortgages to people on his own and approved other loans at banks which are not public records--not just foreclosing on land. It is POSSIBLE that Andrew loaned Dr. Bowen money to set up his medical practice. Even if the money had to be repaid, the doctor could be grateful for the opportunity of starting a career and family.

I'd like to point out that Andrew's father was Abraham BOWEN Borden. Dr. Bowen and Andrew may have come from different genealogic branches and did not consider themselves as relatives, but it is POSSIBLE that they may have had relatives in common. Social occasions may have been weddings and funerals. Southard Miller, Dr. Bowen's father-in-law, was Andrew's old employer and still a neighbor at the time of the murders. I believe these people had some real bond between them.

Dr. Bowen may have sought out Lizzie for something as simple as another (younger) woman's opinion if his wife and daughter did not see eye-to-eye.

Much is made of Lizzie being a Congregationalist and Dr. Bowen being a Baptist that smacks of small town politics and positioning. Andrew and Abbie were married in a Baptist Church in the Watuppa Pond area so I don't see the Bordens themselves having an issue of where he went to church. It's other peoples' problem.

(See Rebello, p. 22 re Rev. Asa Bronson--Note at bottom of page. The Narrows refers to the area between North Wattupa Pond and South Wattupa Pond in Fall River, near the Westport line and a part of North Dartmouth and very near Freetown. Rev. Bronson, in addition to marrying Andrew and Abbie, is Charles Cook's grandfather.)

Is there anyone in the forum from Attleboro? We could really use some primary research into Dr. Bowen's background. Help! Help!

It may explain a lot about what seems inexplicable concerning the good doctor's relations with the Bordens. Old ties and loyalties meant everything to these old colonial families. We can speculate forever. What we need is some tangible proof of something/anything. Right now, Dr. Bowen is a man of mystery.

Allen · Post by **Allen** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 11:52 pm

nbcatlover @ Fri Oct 21, 2005 3:42 pm wrote:
It is POSSIBLE that Andrew loaned Dr. Bowen money to set up his medical practice. Even if the money had to be repaid, the doctor could be grateful for the opportunity of starting a career and family.

I'd like to point out that Andrew's father was Abraham BOWEN Borden. Dr. Bowen and Andrew may have come from different genealogic branches and did not consider themselves as relatives, but it is POSSIBLE that they may have had relatives in common. Social occasions may have been weddings and funerals. Southard Miller, Dr. Bowen's father-in-law, was Andrew's old employer and still a neighbor at the time of the murders. I believe these people had some real bond between them.

First of all, if there was a real bond between Dr. Bowen and Andrew I would think that he would've been invited to the Borden house on more than sick calls. If they were truly friends Dr. Bowen just lived across the street why didn't they visit each other or pay social calls? Mrs. Churchill talks about making social calls at the house, so does Alice Russell. Why not Dr. Bowen?

As for the possibility that Andrew loaned Dr. Bowen money to start his business I find that unlikely.

Trial testimony of Dr. Seabury Bowen page 296:

Q. ( By Mr. Moody) Your full name sir?
A. Seabury W. Bowen.

Q. You are a physician and surgeon practicing in Fall River?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. How long have you lived in Fall River and practiced your profession?
A.26 years.

Q. During a large part of that time you have lived at your present residence?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. How long at your present residence?
A. 21 years.

Inquest testimony Dr. Bowen page 115:

Q. You lived next to the Bordens?
A. Yes.

Q. How long have you lived there?
A. I lived across the street from Mr. Borden twenty years.

Q. You undoubtedly were well acquainted with the family?
A. Yes sir.

Q. And intimately so?
A. Well, yes, neighbors.

In Rebello on page 69:

Dr. Seabury Warren Bowen, was born in Attleboro, Massachusetts, July 20, 1840. He was the son of Benjamin and Leafa Claffin Bowen. He was educated in Attleboro, entered Brown University in Providence, Rhode Island, and graduated in 1864. In 1867, he received an A.M. from Brown University. His medical degrees were from the University of Michigan and Bellevue Medical College in New York City. After graduation, he practiced medicine for one year in Worcester, Massachusetts, taught for one year at Oread Institute also in Worcester and then came to Fall River to practice medicine. In 1871, he married Pheobe Vincent Miller, the daughter of Southard H. and Esther G. Miller, neighbors of the Bordens. Dr. Bowen was the Bordens' family physician. The Bowens were the parents of one daughter, Florence, who later married Horace M. Hathaway. Dr. Bowen was on the staff of Fall River Hospital from its origin, a member of several medical societies, trustee at the State Farm in Bridgewater, Massachusetts, and city physician of Fall River from 1872- 1874. He was a member of the First Baptist Church. Dr. Bowen testified at the inquest, preliminary hearing and trial.

Dr. Bowen died at the age of 78 in Fall River, March 3, 1918. He was buried at Oak Grove Cemetery in Fall River.

Trial testimony of Mrs. Pheobe B. M. Bowen 1583:

Q. You live right across the street from the Borden's?
A. I do.

Q.Lived there nearly all your life?
A.Always.

Q. How long have you known the Borden girls?
A. I have always known Miss Emma Borden; Miss Lizzie since they lived on Second street.

I would say that Dr. Bowen probably, in my opinion, established his practice without the help of Andrew Borden. Also, Dr. Bowen had already been practicing medicine before he married his wife Pheobe in 1871.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Sat Oct 22, 2005 9:25 pm

The Boston Globe, Saturday, August 6, 1892 - 1, 4

"HORROR'S FILL,

Long And Dreary Day
for Fall River."--headline

Here is coverage from the 5th, printed on the 6th, and written by Henry Trickey for the Fall River Globe.

This is Dr. Bowen, supposedly, speaking about Lizzie, to the reporter (partial content):

“ 'It is a very serious matter to make reflections and insinuations against a woman of unstained character as some of the papers are doing in their reports of this case, as they relate to Lizzie Borden," continued the doctor.

'I have known her for many years and have seen her several times since the tragedy.

'I believe her absolutely innocent of even a guilty knowledge of the crime.

'I will not say there may not have been occasional family differences between Mr. Borden and the girls.

'That is a matter I was in a position to know little about, but so far as I ever observed the inter-family relations were cordial.

'There are two reasons why I believe

Lizzie Ought Not be Even Suspected,

or her position in the case questioned.

'First, she had no motive, and secondly, her character is above reproach.

'She has always been a person of undisputed virtue and Christian living.

'But if these reasons are not enough let me add another, greater than the rest.

'I do not believe a hardened man of the world, much less a gentle and refined woman, in her sober senses, devoid of sudden passion, could strike such a blow with such a weapon as was used on Mr. Borden and linger to survey the bloody deed.

'I am a surgeon, and have been in active practice for years, and the first view of the old man's body staggered me.

'I could not inflict upon a dead dog the additional 11 blows that with manifest precision and care were driven into the victim's head.

'I believe no human being in sane mind could perpetrate such a terrible work and then duplicate it on the floor above, taking a defenceless old woman as a victim.

'For this particular reason I do not believe it is right to insinuate a word against so good a woman as Miss Lizzie.

'She possesses our family's confidence, and we believe in her.

'Nevertheless, as a citizen who realizes the demand and need of law, I want the mystery fully cleared up and the guilty party punished.' ”

Allen · Post by **Allen** » Sun Oct 23, 2005 11:23 am

It's interesting that according to that 'interview' Bowen seems to be saying that Andrew was killed first and then Abby.

"'I believe no human being in sane mind could perpetrate such a terrible work and then duplicate it on the floor above, taking a defenceless old woman as a victim."

This quote I find very odd.

"'I do not believe a hardened man of the world, much less a gentle and refined woman, in her sober senses, devoid of sudden passion, could strike such a blow with such a weapon as was used on Mr. Borden and linger to survey the bloody deed. "

In my opinion Lizzie didn't seem to hang around to survey anything after Andrew's killing. She wouldn't even let Bridget go in and have a look after sounding the alarm. A murderer may not always necessarily enjoy the killing aspect of the crime. It's only the means to meet their end. They may not stand back and admire their handywork afterward either. They may be just as horrified at the sight of the mutilated body as anyone else, because even though they caused the death of the person for whatever reason, it's possible they can also have the very human reaction of being sickened at the sight of the mutilated corpse. But that's just my opinion. I would think this would especially maybe apply to someone who has killed in the heat of passion.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 12:00 am

Yes, I agree, and Bridget vomitted around the time Abby was killed!

Otherwise, you also hit on the single phrase I found most intriguing:
Bowen calls Lizzie (in the newspaper quote) "devoid of sudden passion."

Gramma · Post by **Gramma** » Tue Oct 25, 2005 8:02 pm

Has the fact that it is possible Doctor Bowen was a director of the Laurel Mills ever been discussed as a possible source of disagreement between he and Andrew?

Gramma

Allen · Post by **Allen** » Tue Oct 25, 2005 10:09 pm

I'm sure that I've never heard that information before. I would love to hear more about that. In business matters I think Andrew was a very shrewd man with his own ideas about how things should be run. I think anyone who didn't agree with those ideas would really play hell in doing business with him.