Do you dream in Borden?

Bob Gutowski · Post by **Bob Gutowski** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 5:16 pm

Every once in a while I dream I'm visiting The House, and every time I do it's got a huge adjunct building with oodles of books I've never read for sale. Last night was no exception, only that The House itself had been excavated and was sitting, intact, on huge wooden posts.

stuartwsa · Post by **stuartwsa** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 7:22 pm

I've had several dreams about Lizzie and the Bordens over the years also. I remember vividly one that I had back when I was a teenager. I found myself at the house at dawn one morning, and as I watched Bridget and Abby and Andrew go through their morning routines, I realized with a shudder that it was August 4th! I couldn't decide whether I should try and prevent the inevitable, or watch to discover what really happened. I didn't get to do either--I woke up instead!

Haulover · Post by **Haulover** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 9:53 pm

i haven't yet dreamed about the house, though i would like to -- i think. i remember bob G's dream from sometime back about the dressmaker being up in the guest room, while the murders had already occurred. if i've got that right. i'm not good at interpreting them though.

Audrey · Post by **Audrey** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 9:55 pm

I had a dream once that Tracy, Kat, Stefani, Nancie and I were visiting in FR and someone was chasing us and shooting at us and I got really mad at (no names) one of them as she was not running as fast as I thought she should and I screamed at her that they would shoot us "like fish too (not in) a barrel" but it didn't speed her up any.....

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 5:25 am

I know I have recently, but can't remember it now. I recall thinking this was my first and wondering about that.
Within the last couple of weeks, actually.
Lizzie was in it, as my regular friend, and Abby was in it too. Not the house tho. Funny you brought that up Bob.

Angel · Post by **Angel** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 9:00 am

A few weeks ago I dreamed that I was back in time. I was riding in a wagon with goods in it going down a dirt street in a town and the driver was selling to people walking around. We turned a corner and I saw a train from that era coming into town. We then stopped in front of a house and went up the steps into the kitchen. There were two people there, but I don't know who they were. One of them ( a lady) told us that this was the Borden house. All of a sudden I got this incredibly creepy feeling and had to get out of there as fast as I could. After I woke up it gave me a weird feeling the rest of the morning.

Bob Gutowski · Post by **Bob Gutowski** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 10:54 am

Hi, Stuart. And here we both are!

(Stuart just spotted me over at Talkin' Broadway's "All That Chat" board, of which I'm an active member. I also write book reviews for the site.)

I dreamt years ago that I was tiny, but was floating along the upper landing in The House, and I moved into Lizzie's room. Everything was very brightly lit up to my view, though it was nighttime there. I saw the red-headed one asleep, and thought "There she is!" And then I woke up.

(If someone wants to suggest "Possible astral journey into the past?" I will not laugh. It was more like some psychic experiences I was having in those days than an actual dream.)

Harry · Post by **Harry** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 11:03 am

To quote Edgar Allen Poe:

"... Is all that we see or seem
But a dream within a dream?"

I consider those of you who can remember their dreams lucky. I am not one of them. I assume I do as they say all people dream.

sguthmann · Post by **sguthmann** » Fri Nov 25, 2005 5:52 pm

Bob, here's my interpretation of your dream:

The house, as I'm sure you realize, is not merely the physical address and home, but represents the Borden murders and mystery in general.

The "books" represent knowledge and answers. Because of the connection to the house and your obvious interest in the crime, likely answers to the mystery of "who done it?" The facts yet may indicate that the information is unfamiliar to you, or the answer to the crime is something that you have not yet considered.

The adjunct building with the many books you've never read would represent information connected to the Borden case that you've yet to discover. The fact that it's connected to the house is interesting, and will say more on that later.

The Borden house being excavated underneath and all around is your sub-conscience's way of portraying the degree and depth of "digging" that has been done to bring the facts of this mystery to light. The "excavation" and "digging" (digging up the dirt?) motif is very clever, actually - kudos to your subconscience!

The fact that the area around the home has been all dug up and is readily apparent to the visitor is most interesting. Your subconscious may be saying to you that so many underlying layers and factors involving the crime have been explored thus far. The idea of the room of books being connected to the house is VERY intriguing...your subconscience may be on to something. To me, the representation says that instead of digging for answers to the crime through all the minutia of related facts, characters, motives, etc, perhaps the real answer lies fairly close by - not as hidden as one might expect - that the answers you seek are, in fact, are to be found connected to the incident, perhaps within the family or home itself?

Taking all these elements together, perhaps what your dream is trying to represent is that we've all been making this more complicated than it really is. Perhaps the truth is very close, and we just haven't happened upon it yet. All the information and research and digging and theorizing has become the focus, to the exclusion of losing sight of the real answers - which, according to your subconscience, may lie very near.

I'm no Freud, but I get a kick out of dream interpretation. So whadya think?

Nancy · Post by **Nancy** » Fri Nov 25, 2005 6:21 pm

I Love dreams, I Love sleep, when I wake up it is
just too bad, same ol same ol and the dream is gone. I only dreamed about the case one time I
remember Lizzie was in my bedroom and screaming
at me why did I wear her sweater without permission. weird.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Fri Nov 25, 2005 6:41 pm

I usually think that dreaming about a house or a room in a house is really dreaming about those compartments we have in our own minds.
These rooms are in ourselves- in our own brains.
It's possible the Borden house is a mental metaphor for one's own inner workings of the mind.
The brain does try to figure itself out more often than it is trying to figure out an outside mystery.
I'd say any secret rooms or hidden books which become exposed reflect the potential for inner knowledge coming closer.

I also think more detail could expose more info.
Also, the feeling involved is every bit as important as the symbolism.

Fargo · Post by **Fargo** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 3:09 am

Quite often if I have had a dream, the next day I will remember that I dreamed, but I won't remember much about it.

I have had a couple of dreams where I met Lizzie and the two of us talked to each other, but I don't remember much of what was said.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 3:49 am

It's usually a rule that everyone in your dream is you.

I know that may sound odd as a sweeping statement, but at least when one begins to interpret they should start at that point.

john · Post by **john** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 4:07 am

That's v interesting, and i never heard that before kat.

john · Post by **john** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 4:14 am

I know I've been gone for a while and I've been in a variety of different places that I didn't want to be, but two things I can assure you for future reference: the food is better in the looney bin than in jail; it's nice to come back and be bounced immediately into kats room which somehow happened, so nice in Kat's room.

augusta · Post by **augusta** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 7:55 pm

All those dreams were really interesting! The closest I ever came to dreaming about Lizzie or the house was once when I was in Fall River, I dreamed about Michael Martins. But that was no nightmare ...

I remember almost all of my dreams. They usually come from some little thing I saw or heard a slight mention of during the day. I dream a lot that Indians are attacking, and that's very scary. (My brother used to play 'Pioneers & Indians' with me, and he always made me be the pioneer. He'd sit me in my little red wagon, then leave me all alone in our vast back yard and he'd disappear for a long time. I'd get scared just sitting there, then he'd come running from nowhere with a fake tomahawk, and he'd chase me and I'd scream ... ) That and something was coming - a tornado, the SS in WWII, World War 3, something ... and I had to figure out in five minutes all the stuff to pack for my family that we would have to survive on. I usually take so much time packing, I wake up before whatever's coming gets there.

Yes, I agree with you, Kat - all of the characters are ourself. We are the ones that make them do things and make them talk.

Sometimes in a dream, I will want to change something about the storyline and I will try to change what's going on, or what I'm doing. It's very frustrating when I can't do it. I'll try several times, and a scene will repeat itself as I keep trying to change something.

Susan · Post by **Susan** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 10:30 pm

After reading this thread before going to bed last night, I had a doozy of a Borden dream! I dreamed that I had finally made it to the B&B, I was there with my twin and a few friends. They wanted to see the sitting room first and I wanted to see the guest room first, since Abby was the first to die, it was very important to me in my dream. So, we seperated and I went up the front stairs alone. I remembered to look through the railings under the bed in the guest room on my way up. Once I hit the landing I heard thumping on the stairs behind me. I turned to see a life size crucifix thumping up the stairs. A living Jesus was hanging on the cross, bleeding from what was multiple hatchet cuts all over his body and head. How this fit on those small stairs in the B&B I'll never know, but, it did in this dream!

I turned, screaming and tried to get in the guest room, but of course, was moving in slow motion. I kept waiting for hands to grab me from behind as I made my slow way into the guest room. Once I finally made it in the door I realized that the crucifix had thumped back down the stairs. I peekd out the door only to see that once it reached the bottom, the crucifix proceeded to thump back up the stairs again. Up and down, up and down, leaving me trapped in the guest room. I figured at least I was safe for the time being in there until I suddenly felt like I wasn't alone! Something was in the room with me, staring holes through the back of my head. I turned slowly to see what or who it was and a black form rushed at me enveloping me in blackness. Needless to say, I woke this morning with quite a start, heart going a mile a minute! I breathed a sigh of relief only to shortly realize that I was still hearing thumping which froze me right up. That is until I remembered that it was just the roofers working on the roof of my apartment building. Their hammering had become the thumps in my nightmare.

sguthmann · Post by **sguthmann** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 11:11 pm

can't say as I agree that all persons in our dreams represent ourselves...they may, but they may also represent others such as our parents, formative persons in our lives etc. it all depends on context and the dream as a whole. and, of course, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 4:41 am

The brain is very self-centered.

That's the best way to explain it.

augusta · Post by **augusta** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 1:39 pm

Susan, your dream was really interesting! You must have been petrified. Thanks for sharing.

I agree - other people in our dreams represent those people. But we are still behind it all, pulling all the strings on our marionettes.

Susan · Post by **Susan** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 8:54 pm

You're welcome, Augusta. Though I can't even begin to interpret it myself, if indeed it meant anything at all?

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 12:33 am

How did you feel, is the main question.
It's more important than any other.
Dreaming is symbolism.
Things stand for other things.
Your dream is peopled with aspects of yourself.

I studied dream interpretation, and practiced it, since I did independent study at college at UMASS. Not everyday- but I'm good at it.

john · Post by **john** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 12:48 am

Kat & John again. People will think we're steppin again Kat.
I want to tell them right now it isn't so. Kat and I have never been more than businesslike friends.

john · Post by **john** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 1:02 am

I wear the camo
And she wears chamoise
I load the ammo
And she helps the beast
Lets call the whole thing off
Darling lets call the whole thing off...........
You want the news and I get the paper,
You get the blues and I get the pastor,
Lets call the whole thing off,
Darling lets call the whole thing off.......
People weren't created just to cheat you
And I am one of those that never tried,
There is a way inside you that will get you
And I'll keep trying 'till I'm on that side.
You say cola and I say pop
You say lay and I say drop
cola pop lay drop
Lets call the whole thing off
Honey lets call the whole thing off!

Susan · Post by **Susan** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 8:50 pm

Kat @ Thu Dec 08, 2005 10:33 pm wrote:How did you feel, is the main question.
It's more important than any other.
Dreaming is symbolism.
Things stand for other things.
Your dream is peopled with aspects of yourself.

I studied dream interpretation, and practiced it, since I did independent study at college at UMASS. Not everyday- but I'm good at it.

How did I feel during the dream? When we first arrived at the B&B, it was excitement, elation and a sense of urgency. Once things started going wrong, it was just sheer outright terror and the need to get away from it.

Fargo · Post by **Fargo** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 5:15 am

I sure had a strange one a few nights back. I have thought how with the crime scene pictures there is no picture of Abby's face. I had a dream where I came across a website that had pictures of Abby in her coffin, including close ups of her face. There was about five pictures in all, one was of the two coffins togeather in the house. I went to the Forum and there was no mention of it. I posted the information about the website. I was overly excited about the new discovery.

snokkums · Post by **snokkums** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 8:10 pm

Everyonce in awhile, I dream that I am back at that time living there and being friend and actually know her.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 3:39 am

It's interesting this topic came up again.

About 2 weeks ago I dreamed that a family member was attacked and I picked up a blunt object near to hand and beat the person off. The thing that was odd was that I was kind of pumped up then on adrenaline and continued beating the person to death with this object.
When I awoke, I thought about a Borden killing in defense of someone else, not self-defense.

(I've never dreamed such a violent dream before- but I must say I had never stayed in a place where people were murdered before, either- like my recent stay at the B&B).

1bigsteve · Post by **1bigsteve** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 5:39 pm

The only dream I ever had of Lizzie was a short one.

She and I were outside her house in 1892 calmly talking. She was wearing a navy blue dress with a light blue upper section that had thin blue vertical stripes. The blue diamond figure was on the dress. For some reason or other I suddenly slammed Lizzie up against the side of her house with my left hand and raised a hatchet over my head to strike her. Her eyes got real big and her mouth dropped open and that is when I woke up.

I have no idea what prompted that dream. I was probably reading one of the books at that time.

-1bigsteve (o:

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 3:41 am

It sounds like you may have been frustrated at her annoying answers to the inquest questions!

Oscar · Post by **Oscar** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:53 am

I have had dreams about being in the house, but I think in present tense, not in the past, no time travel or anything. I've dreamed about knowing Lizzie though, which must have been in the past. I don't remember my dreams well.

1bigsteve · Post by **1bigsteve** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 10:54 pm

Kat @ Wed Oct 11, 2006 11:41 pm wrote:It sounds like you may have been frustrated at her annoying answers to the inquest questions!

You could have a point there, Kat. I must have become tweeked at something she said or didn't say. "Tell me where you hid that hatchet, Lizzie, or I'll plant this one in your head!"

I never have dreams in which I get violent toward someone so that one puzzle's me.

-1bigsteve (o:

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 1:53 am

I'm the same way- I don't get violent but I did lately in that dream.
It made me think of Lizzie killing in defense of someone else. Someone she needed to protect.
In fact, it felt more like an Emma-killing-to-protect-Lizzie type of situation. Literally, defending her from bodily harm or some sort of attack.

It's good enough you 2 guys dream and remember a few! A lot of men don't remember their dreams.

1bigsteve · Post by **1bigsteve** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 10:12 am

Wouldn't that be a hoot if Emma did kill her parents to protect Lizzie, maybe not so much from physical harm but to protect her financially, to ensure Lizzie would have enough money for the rest of her life?

There are very few dreams I remember and the few I do were in vivid technicolor. After Vic Morrow was killed by that helicopter I had a dream in which he was killed at a motorcycle drag racing competition when his tee shirt got too close the the chain and was pulled into the sprocket. The blood and guts were everywhere and I was trying to stuff them back into his body. Everything was in bright colors.

I had a dream in which my friend told me simply, "Steve, I have breast cancer." I remember the details, the color of her dress, the tiny yellow daisies on it and even the ceramic tile on her counter top her left hand was resting upon. I woke up mad at her for "letting it" happen to her before I realized it was only a dream. Exactly one week later it was announced on the evening news that she did have breast cancer. I nearly fell out of my chair. Now where did that dream come from?

The sad part about the Lizzie dream was that it was silent. I could see her mouth moving as she was talking but there was no sound coming out, not even when I raised that hatchet. But the colors and details were very vivid.

It is strange how our brains work.

-1bigsteve (o:

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 7:29 pm

Her lips moving and no sound, seems like a Cingular commercial.

Technically, all dreams are about ourselves- we play all the parts, so to speak. Each character is an aspect of yourself.

But these prophesy dreams, I think, are from outside of us- or at least about others, coming from somewhere.

~~
I can't feel like Emma would kill Abbie like that just for money- it's the imminent physical harm that makes it reasonable to me, from my own dream point of view.
It's like self-defense- but self-defense of another. That would mean they were interconnected mentally or spiritually or psychicly. IMO. That's sort of what I am getting at.

1bigsteve · Post by **1bigsteve** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 9:38 am

You could be right, Kat. It could have been that Emma was overly protective of Lizzie and felt in her mind that "poor little Lizzie" was being threatend, some how, by her Parents. It would not be the first time a murder has taken place due to this very same reasoning.

But what I'm now wondering is, did Emma do the killing herself or did she hire it out? It seems so strange that Emma, who almost never left Fall River, would choose that exact weekend to make herself scarce. It was also the same weekend that Uncle John made an appearance. That is too much of a coincidence for my brain cells. I'm almost positive that at least one member of that family, and probably more, knew the murders were going to happen.
____

What I don't like about Cingular is that they send me the weather reports, that I did not ask for and can't shut off, and they charge me money for them. They also send me voice messages that I don't want and charge me for those as well. It's like going to the store and someone loads your shopping cart with stuff you don't want and then forces you to pay for it. Grrrr... Wheres' my hatchet?!

-1bigsteve (o:

Oscar · Post by **Oscar** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 10:59 pm

How do we know how often Emma went out from 92 2nd St. or traveled outside of Fall River? The only thing I've ever read in reference to this was in Arnold R. Brown's book. Is there a real source and basis for this information?

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 4:39 am

It's a good question and something we should keep in mind.

Harry · Post by **Harry** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 8:43 pm

Emma testified at the Inquest (p108):

"Q. Were you away a good deal of the time, or mostly at home?
A. Mostly at home."

In Porter's book, written in 1893, he says Emma never left New England. Where did he get that information? Of course we know Emma traveled to Scotland in 1906 but that was after Porter's book.

We also know that the Borden's were in Chicago at some period of time when Lizzie was young. There is reference to her attending Sunday school there. Was Emma there also? That would have been before Porter's book.

Oscar · Post by **Oscar** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 12:31 am

So Harry, Did the Bordens actually live in Chicago for a time? I've never been aware of that. I've always assumed that the family's roots were pretty deep in Fall River, in a very confined and self-contained kind of way, and that they rarely ventured outside of it at all. I aways thought that that's why Lizzie's trip to Europe was such a big deal for her.

Harry · Post by **Harry** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 1:27 pm

Oscar @ Tue Oct 17, 2006 12:31 am wrote:So Harry, Did the Bordens actually live in Chicago for a time? I've never been aware of that. I've always assumed that the family's roots were pretty deep in Fall River, in a very confined and self-contained kind of way, and that they rarely ventured outside of it at all. I aways thought that that's why Lizzie's trip to Europe was such a big deal for her.

We have never been able to find an exact date nor length of stay. The information comes from an interview with Mrs. Holmes and Lizzie's friends and was published in the Boston Herald, Aug. 7th. It is in Rebello, page 10:

"When a young girl, she accompanied her parents to Chicago and was there a member of the Sunday school class and punctual in attendance."

Kat wrote an excellent article on what could have occurred in the December 2005 issue of the Hatchet, titled "The Visit".

RayS · Post by **RayS** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 1:39 pm

Oscar @ Tue Oct 17, 2006 12:31 am wrote:So Harry, Did the Bordens actually live in Chicago for a time? I've never been aware of that. I've always assumed that the family's roots were pretty deep in Fall River, in a very confined and self-contained kind of way, and that they rarely ventured outside of it at all. I aways thought that that's why Lizzie's trip to Europe was such a big deal for her.

I find this idea unbelievable. Young Emma (born 1848?) could not have traveled easily to Chicago in those days. No railroad connections until circa 1860 or so. Perhaps a memory lapse?
Where is the confirmation from another witness?

I could be wrong, but I doubt if Andy would leave his business for a pleasure trip (not much pleasure in those days). "Documentary proof?"

1bigsteve · Post by **1bigsteve** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 7:36 pm

Kat @ Fri Oct 13, 2006 3:29 pm wrote:Her lips moving and no sound, seems like a Cingular commercial.

Technically, all dreams are about ourselves- we play all the parts, so to speak. Each character is an aspect of yourself.

But these prophesy dreams, I think, are from outside of us- or at least about others, coming from somewhere.

~~
I can't feel like Emma would kill Abbie like that just for money- it's the imminent physical harm that makes it reasonable to me, from my own dream point of view.
It's like self-defense- but self-defense of another. That would mean they were interconnected mentally or spiritually or psychicly. IMO. That's sort of what I am getting at.

You mean we are actually each person in our dreams? So I was not only myself with the hatchet but I was also Lizzie? Gee, darn, I looked pretty good in that dress. Maybe there is some hope for me after all... no, well maybe not!

In yesterday's paper there was a quote from a writer of yesteryear whose name I can't recall who said that our dreams are our brains way of getting attention for the things we often ignore during the day. I'm not using the exact words but that is the gist. I thought that was interesting.

-1bigsteve (o:

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Sat Oct 28, 2006 7:19 am

ray you will have to get the magazine. I did provide credible sources, including that Morse states on oath that Andrew had visited his place out west. Harry helped me figure out the train route they may have taken! I do not mess around or write these articles or stories lightly. Read my story and then ask questions.

Hey bigsteve: I once dreamed I was a girl and a guy and a person other than them watching them, and I knew it in the dream.

bobarth · Post by **bobarth** » Thu Nov 16, 2006 1:52 pm

Finally had my first Borden dream that I remember.

Had just arrived at the house and realized I forgot Leonard Rebellos book that I wanted him to sign. So the first thing I wanted to do then was check out the steps (the ones leading to the guest room) But they had redone the steps and instead of there being 2 separate staircases, one in the front and another set in the back. There was now one big double staircase in the middle of the house.
Also you had to be very careful in the rooms because at the edges of the rooms flooring there was nothing, no floor or anything so you had to stand in the middle of the floor. Then someone spoke to me and told me to get out that if the Mellon Gang found me they would kill me. That no one messes with them.

Then I woke up

RayS · Post by **RayS** » Thu Nov 16, 2006 1:58 pm

Kat @ Sat Oct 28, 2006 7:19 am wrote:ray you will have to get the magazine. I did provide credible sources, including that Morse states on oath that Andrew had visited his place out west. Harry helped me figure out the train route they may have taken! I do not mess around or write these articles or stories lightly. Read my story and then ask questions.

Hey bigsteve: I once dreamed I was a girl and a guy and a person other than them watching them, and I knew it in the dream.

I believe you are honest and sincere in your research and posting.
But merely following courtroom testimony that may be self-serving and part of the cover-up is a question of judgment. Yes, I'm skeptical, aren't you?
If Uncle John volunteered an answer to an unasked question, there may be a hidden reason for that.
Juries are supposed to weight conflicting testimony to arrive at the True Facts in the case.

Haulover · Post by **Haulover** » Thu Nov 16, 2006 8:22 pm

i have had one dream about being in the borden house. this was probably three months ago. it is odd, maybe there is some symbolism, but i have not thought that much about it. maybe this is the place to tell it.

i am a guest and i'm staying in the guest room. but the guest room is inverted -- it is on the south side of the house, as opposed to the north side. i am lying on the bed, feeling out of sorts, but i'm aware that other guests are soon to arrive and i need to get ready for something. i go through my suitcase, looking for something nice to wear. the room is in disrepair and junky with trunks and it needs cleaning. suddenly, my sister enters the room, and asks me if i'm going to clean up the room. i say, no, i don't think so, it's not my job. but she brings in a broom, and leaves it there, and walks out, miffed at my "it's not my problem" attitude. then as i think it over, i think, well, i might as well sweep the floor, if nothing else. so i start sweeping between the dresser and the bed, and suddenly a frog-like, deformed creature jumps on the bed, and i kill it quickly with the broom. then i think, well that's it -- i'm not dealing with this mess. i decide to get dressed with tie and jacket and await the other visitors i anticipate.

i have not made a serious effort to interpret it. does anyone notice anything meaningful in it?

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 1:00 am

I wish I didn't believe that we are every person in our dreams, because as a Lizzie story that would be a good one to evaluate!

Lizzie Borden Society Forum

Do you dream in Borden?

Do you dream in Borden?

An Interpretation of Bob's Dream