Crime Scene Re-enactment

Ad · Post by Ad » Wed Dec 28, 2005 6:50 pm

Has there ever been a crime scene re-enactment done at the Borden house? A person for each character (that we know of) associated with that day in that house and yard?

I mean walking through each and every person’s timeline (and "all" the variables) according to the information, court records, statement, etc, that are available. Lizzie is in so many places at the same time, it would be interesting to see which scenario would actually work, or better, which would not!!!!!

I would like to see all the interactions of bodies (or lack thereof) as the clock run through its course.

Is it fusible for a woman, in the dress of the day, with all the extra clothing, to climb the ladder in the barn up into the hayloft? Would she normally have stayed there for an extended period dressed from neck to ankle, including a hat, in that somewhat "warm" loft (heat rises)

It would be interesting to see the holes in the flow of people’s movements. I’m sure there is so much more that hasn’t been accounted for. It’s sometimes hard for me to place one person’s activities over another and another and another and still be fully abreast of what everyone is or isn’t doing.

Perhaps a computer simulation would be better as an added tool to “see all” at once. Plus it would allow for us to play with countless variables quickly.

It’s just a thought, but think of what a program like that could do for all of us armchair detectives!! It would be fun to re-configure different scenarios as they come to mind, any time of day or night.

Does anyone else have any thoughts?

Ad · Post by Ad » Wed Dec 28, 2005 6:57 pm

That's - feasible not fusible - so much for spell check......

1bigsteve · Post by **1bigsteve** » Wed Dec 28, 2005 7:14 pm

I have been wondering the same thing, Al. It would be cool if an exact replica of the 1892 Borden house and barn were constructed so we can see what we could discover as to time-line and body movements. Maybe the original would become available someday for us to use. Who knows, someone may find an old rusty hatchet under some floor boards or in a wall between the studs. A computer simulation would also be a big help.

-1bigsteve (o:

bsr7788 · Post by **bsr7788** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 1:33 pm

That would be cool - the only re-enactments we do are the ones for Aug 4th tho...

Maybe someday we could have special "murder nights" or something and have a full re-enactment.

Ben

RayS · Post by **RayS** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 5:47 pm

David Kent's "40 Whacks" has his timeline for Lizzie's travel from the house to the barn. He doubts it could be done in the time given. BUT he also says people did not carry watches to check minute by minute, so you shouldn't try to hang anyone on a few minutes discrepancy.

Speculation about the recreation overlooks one important fact: WHO will pay fot it?

theebmonique · Post by **theebmonique** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 6:11 pm

Who said it had been overlooked ? Just because cost hasn't been mentioned doesn't mean it is not a consideration.

Tracy...

1bigsteve · Post by **1bigsteve** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 6:59 pm

Perhaps charging admission would be a logical way of paying for the construction and up-keep on a Borden replica. I would love to see that. I would pay.

-1bigsteve (o:

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 12:27 am

If they make a film at the house (which I believe they wish to do), they would have the budget. It would probably take professionals who follow direction to get everyone in place and doing what we think the characters were doing, otherwise it'd be chaos.
That's got to be a large cast, eventually.

Hi Ben!
I hope you play Cunningham!

Allen · Post by **Allen** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 2:02 am

Well I would hope that if they do make a film they stick with the facts, and just the facts ma'am, because I've seen too many movies lately that say they are based on a true story...and I would say that they should add the word LOOSELY....’This Movie is Loosely Based On a True Story’...and in fine print it should say 'that means we can add any junk that we like to make it more exciting for an audience.'

theebmonique · Post by **theebmonique** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 2:42 am

Hopefully, Mr. Rebello would be hired as one of the technical advisors. AND...Stef, Kat, Harry...and others from the forum as well.

Tracy...

bsr7788 · Post by **bsr7788** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 11:37 am

Btw - the script for our moview is now complete! It should be arriving at the house today, provided it all goes well transporting (we know how that goes..)

Ben

HI KAT!!!

Ad · Post by Ad » Fri Dec 30, 2005 12:58 pm

theebmonique @ Thu Dec 29, 2005 11:42 pm wrote:Hopefully, Mr. Rebello would be hired as one of the technical advisors. AND...Stef, Kat, Harry...and others from the forum as well.

Tracy...

I couldn't agree more. I would like to see it done in the fashion of Len Rebello's book. That is to say, just the facts as we know them without any bias or hidden agenda.
A forensic walkthrough with a times table! Don’t forget to include yourself Tracy!!

The actual house would be best for a real time walk through, without a doubt. But I still like the idea of a computer generated crime scene as well, so we could play with all the variables. It would be more of a bird’s eye view of the “goings on”. Without the “human” factor! I’m sure someone out there would have the where by all to make this happen.

Does anyone out there have connections with or any information on such an application? Or does anyone know people who could bring this into being?

Kat –
Do you know when a film might be made at the house? Also, who would be making it?

P/S
Did anyone else get Len Rebello’s Lizzie Borden, Past and Present for Christmas besides me? What an awesome gift. Mr. Rebello signed mine at the house, on the soda where Andrew died. It’s the other bookend (opposite the Knowlton Papers) to my collection.

theebmonique · Post by **theebmonique** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 1:19 pm

I git my Rebello a few years ago. He signed mine at the house as well. He also drew a cut picture of the bahn. The tour all around Lizzieland, with him, was THE best !

Tracy...

Allen · Post by **Allen** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 1:38 pm

I think another neat idea to make a movie a about the case a little more real, would be not to show the actual murders being committed at all. To cut out after the last known factual happening, such as Andrew leaving the house or maybe his recorded movements around town, and cut back with Lizzie screaming at the bottom of the steps for Bridget. Technically since Lizzie was aquitted, it's still open for debate as to who did it. If it was filmed in this way, it would also leave it open for debate as to who did it and how.

DWilly · Post by **DWilly** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 2:13 pm

theebmonique @ Fri Dec 30, 2005 2:19 pm wrote:I git my Rebello a few years ago. He signed mine at the house as well. He also drew a cut picture of the bahn. The tour all around Lizzieland, with him, was THE best !

Tracy...

I also got mine at the house. Although, Rebello wasn't around to sign it

Right now I'm waiting for the Lizzie Borden Source Book by David Kent to arrive. I did another interlibrary loan to get it.

As someone who is still very new to the Lizzie Borden case this whole book thing is a bit confusing. Other than Rebello it seems like every book I read is later said to be junk for one reason or another. Eventually, I guess I'll have to break down and go buy the Knowlton papers. I can't get that through the library. At least I don't think I can.

theebmonique · Post by **theebmonique** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 2:24 pm

I think the "ending" should be left open as well. Give as many facts and possibilities as possible...but leave the final "decision" up to the individual.

Tracy...

theebmonique · Post by **theebmonique** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 2:28 pm

Thanks for the compliment Ad, but I am far from an expert. The more I read on this case, the more I become undecided, yet I want Lizzie to not have done it...yet again...I can't decide. Having been to the house, etc., does make me feel a bit more connected in 'seeing' where it all went down.

Tracy...

theebmonique · Post by **theebmonique** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 2:29 pm

Good luck in getting the Knowlton Papers...believe me, I know the trials and tribulations of going on that conquest.

Tracy...

Susan · Post by **Susan** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 8:01 pm

That would be something really cool to see, I assume it would include the Borden's neighbors too, where they were and what they could possibly see at the given times. The biggest problem would be that most of the homes and business' don't exist, so, there would have to be some sort of approximation as to where they were. We could all probably do something with the available house charts and charts of the neighborhood, couldn't we?